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The 41 refugee thread

Old 08-04-10, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ijen0311
They don't race together? Interesting. I guess I was assuming it was like a tri.
Here in FL the women's fields are typically fairly small. Often the Women's Cat 4 field will be combined with one of the Men's categories (usually Cat 5). We are in the mid-summer lull for racing here. Calendar for FL races is at www.floridacycling.com.

I would advise you to start by riding some group rides, and work your way up. We have several women racing for Velobrew (www.velobrew.com) and most of them ride on the Tuesday night ride out of Open Road on Hendricks (don't make that your first group ride...).

If you want to get started riding with groups show up for a few NFBC rides ( www.nfbc.us ). Older group, good place for a beginner to start and learn group etiquette.

Tri club: Hammerhead Triathlon Club ( www.hammerheadtriathlonclub.com ). Monthly meeting was tonight, good group, lots of young and enthusiastic members, group workouts (mostly out at the beach). Susan Wallis, the president, is a great person to know and is involved in many local races including the BFAST sprints and the club's own tri, the HOT at Camp Blanding.

Finally, I'm assuming you're across the river from OP, but I ride most of the time out of About Bicycles on Blanding. Kent Lofton, the owner, is a multiple time State and National champion and about half of our regular riders race at least occasionally.
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Old 08-04-10, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by KendallF
Here in FL the women's fields are typically fairly small. Often the Women's Cat 4 field will be combined with one of the Men's categories (usually Cat 5). We are in the mid-summer lull for racing here. Calendar for FL races is at www.floridacycling.com.

I would advise you to start by riding some group rides, and work your way up. We have several women racing for Velobrew (www.velobrew.com) and most of them ride on the Tuesday night ride out of Open Road on Hendricks (don't make that your first group ride...).

If you want to get started riding with groups show up for a few NFBC rides ( www.nfbc.us ). Older group, good place for a beginner to start and learn group etiquette.

Tri club: Hammerhead Triathlon Club ( www.hammerheadtriathlonclub.com ). Monthly meeting was tonight, good group, lots of young and enthusiastic members, group workouts (mostly out at the beach). Susan Wallis, the president, is a great person to know and is involved in many local races including the BFAST sprints and the club's own tri, the HOT at Camp Blanding.

Finally, I'm assuming you're across the river from OP, but I ride most of the time out of About Bicycles on Blanding. Kent Lofton, the owner, is a multiple time State and National champion and about half of our regular riders race at least occasionally.
I plan on getting involved in the rides out of Hendricks at some point, since I work in San Marco. I was easing about Velobrew earlier, looks like a great group!
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Old 08-04-10, 09:20 PM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by kensuf
https://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2009/...malized-power/

You might want to go read the power training thread though..
Originally Posted by Ygduf
https://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2009/...malized-power/

read that. tl;dr: normalized takes power into account, 500w for 10s is more demanding than 50w for 100s, for example, while average is just that, an overall average with all power values weighted equally.
Originally Posted by umd
I wouldn't normalized power is better, it is used for a different purpose. Average power is the real work that you did, Normalized power is an estimation of the metabolic stress on your body. It is calculated with a rolling 30 second average of power^4. This magnifies (rewards) spikes in power and lessens dips in power. Very steady state power output will have NP=AP and very "spikey" power will have NP much higher than AP.
Originally Posted by mattm
If you want to feel great about a race/workout, look at NP.

If you want the real story, and be humbled, look at AP.

Having said that, NP is useful for calc'ing TSS.
Thanks. I'm still early days with the PM. Mostly just gathering data and still need to test. It has been humbling.

Sounds like I'll eventually need to sort what sort of program to get or upload to for more advanced analysis.
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Old 08-04-10, 09:45 PM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
+1 but then he Billy can't be too smart, he is a Cowboys fan after all Seriously though, as a mod you have to be at least somewhat cognizant of the difference of tone in this subforum. People have come here asking pretty basic questions that they couldn't get answered without an 70/30 BS to answer level in the road bike forum..basic road bike questions for gods sake. I used to spend a lot of time in the road forum but over the past year it's just completely gone off the rails. Most of the Road Race Forum regulars feel the same way. Many won't post there anymore, guys who have years of experience and could offer solid advice.
+1.

A barely glance at threads there anymore.
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Old 08-04-10, 09:59 PM
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When looking for a TT bike do you use the same top tube measurement as your road bike?

(disclaimer - I already bought a TT bike on craigslist recently and I've adjusted everything and it seems right)

I supposed I should have asked this question before I bought it but the deal was great.
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Old 08-05-10, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by save10
When looking for a TT bike do you use the same top tube measurement as your road bike?

(disclaimer - I already bought a TT bike on craigslist recently and I've adjusted everything and it seems right)

I supposed I should have asked this question before I bought it but the deal was great.
General rule of thumb is one size smaller than your road machine. But this varies as I found with my Ordu. It was one size down from my road machine but still too big. Ended up on a Transition, but those are stack and reach bikes so I could have bought anything up to a med and made it work.
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Old 08-05-10, 05:37 AM
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what EDR said. Rule of thumb is one size smaller, but it varies from bike to bike and person to person.

Cross bikes are also generally one size smaller if you're interested.
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Old 08-05-10, 05:44 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by ijen0311
What percent of the racers at a typical race are women? I want to get into it, but I don't want to be the only one. It would be intimidating.
Unfortunately, not many. Maybe 5% (if lucky), and Florida racing brings out all of the weirdos (like me and Mollusk).

You're in Jax, right? Do some of the group rides, get to know Katie. She races for JRC (Jacksonville Racing Club), and can kick some butt, and maybe she can answer some of your questions.

There are races in New Smyrna on August 28th/29th, and there might be some races in Nocatee on October 2nd/3rd. Both should be close enough to show up, sign up, pin a number on, and try it.

https://www.floridacycling.com/ has the calendar.
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Old 08-05-10, 06:19 AM
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here's another question for the fast guys and not the 41 refugees.

do you prefer being behind kops at kops or ahead of kops.?.....notice I'm not asking what is right because there is no right.

Since my saddle lower thing, I've been playing around with other tweaks just to see how it feels and what difference it makes. I do it in as close to identical conditions as possible (loops round a park) so it is like doing it on a test track.
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Old 08-05-10, 06:29 AM
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Behind. I have strong glutes and hamstrings and want to recruit them. Also, back of KOPS is better for climbing, which I do a lot of.
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Old 08-05-10, 06:36 AM
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I'm right on KOPS (last I checked anyway, apparently saddles can wander even when tight due to the flexing and such).

I don't have a good reason for being there.
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Old 08-05-10, 07:05 AM
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Im naturally comfortable in a slightly forward position... not sure why, I just am. I didnt really even know it 'til my lbs/shop got the retul stuff.
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Old 08-05-10, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by coasting
here's another question for the fast guys and not the 41 refugees.

do you prefer being behind kops at kops or ahead of kops.?.....notice I'm not asking what is right because there is no right.

Since my saddle lower thing, I've been playing around with other tweaks just to see how it feels and what difference it makes. I do it in as close to identical conditions as possible (loops round a park) so it is like doing it on a test track.
As you suggest KOPS is a neutral starting point and a good place to put beginners.

The real issue here is that it doesn't account for femur/tibia ratios.

I can't pull the exact number out of my arse anymore (and would be VERY appreciative of anyone who could remind me) and I believe the theory was somehow attributed to or adhered to by Hinault.

The idea is that there is a ratio to consider between these two bones. Riders who fall on the femur dominant side of the equation (see Jocylen Lovell) tend to run lower saddles, have a slightly more rearward position and tend to ride at a lower cadence.

Riders who are Tibia dominant favour a slightly higher and more forward position. They also tend to ride at higher cadence and be on top of the gear a bit more. It's been my observation that these riders also tend to be more toe pointers (heel up) than previous riders who are much more likely to drop their heels (nice tie in to your previous post, non?) and power across the gear.

Seriously, if anyone can recall where this comes from I'd love to revisit this information.
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Old 08-05-10, 07:56 AM
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Another theory of bike fitting is to not worry about KOPS and go for a position that puts tyou into a neutral weight distribution.
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Old 08-05-10, 07:59 AM
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I started out at KOPS but something didn't feel right so I moved it behind KOPS which is where I felt I was pedaling the best and that's where I've had it for the past few years.
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Old 08-05-10, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by umd
Another theory of bike fitting is to not worry about KOPS and go for a position that puts tyou into a neutral weight distribution.
I adhere to this theory. I don't even know if my current set up is KOPS or not....
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Old 08-05-10, 08:07 AM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina
As you suggest KOPS is a neutral starting point and a good place to put beginners.

The real issue here is that it doesn't account for femur/tibia ratios.

I can't pull the exact number out of my arse anymore (and would be VERY appreciative of anyone who could remind me) and I believe the theory was somehow attributed to or adhered to by Hinault.

The idea is that there is a ratio to consider between these two bones. Riders who fall on the femur dominant side of the equation (see Jocylen Lovell) tend to run lower saddles, have a slightly more rearward position and tend to ride at a lower cadence.

Riders who are Tibia dominant favour a slightly higher and more forward position. They also tend to ride at higher cadence and be on top of the gear a bit more. It's been my observation that these riders also tend to be more toe pointers (heel up) than previous riders who are much more likely to drop their heels (nice tie in to your previous post, non?) and power across the gear.

Seriously, if anyone can recall where this comes from I'd love to revisit this information.
I have extremely long tibia and feet. In fact I am only ~5'7 and my saddle is as high as some of my friends who are 5'11. My saddle position is very forward on a 52cm bike.

I would not pass UCI regulations, especially on the TT bike. However, I can make it look like KOPS neutral just by changing my ankle angle. The difference is quite pronounced.
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Old 08-05-10, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
General rule of thumb is one size smaller than your road machine. But this varies as I found with my Ordu. It was one size down from my road machine but still too big. Ended up on a Transition, but those are stack and reach bikes so I could have bought anything up to a med and made it work.
As it turns out...that is what I bought...fortunate for me.


Legitimate question...what is KOPS?
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Old 08-05-10, 08:15 AM
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Knee Over Pedal Spindle
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Old 08-05-10, 08:22 AM
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I was set up KOPS using a plumb bob. When I got my Retul fit, under dynamic pedaling it was forward. We moved my saddle back. YMMV.
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Old 08-05-10, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy
I have extremely long tibia and feet. In fact I am only ~5'7 and my saddle is as high as some of my friends who are 5'11. My saddle position is very forward on a 52cm bike.

I would not pass UCI regulations, especially on the TT bike. However, I can make it look like KOPS neutral just by changing my ankle angle. The difference is quite pronounced.
Shoe size is also a factor as you point out.
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Old 08-05-10, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina
Shoe size is also a factor as you point out.
I look like a capital L
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Old 08-05-10, 08:38 AM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy
I look like a capital L
This you?

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Old 08-05-10, 08:40 AM
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yeah, big feet, big slide

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Old 08-05-10, 09:04 AM
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I have a sneaky suspicion that every amateur racer in California races a Specialized with Sram.... Just sayin'...
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