Is this the future of Road Bikes?
09-14-10, 09:23 AM
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Is this the future of Road Bikes?
This is a photo taken by Kevin Saunders (of KGS Bikes fame) at the Tour De Austin. Basically someone converted a TT frame for road race use. I'm wondering if this will be the trend as being a watt weenie becomes more common.
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09-14-10, 09:29 AM
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I've seen a couple of guys on TT rigs in crits. There was a guy at the ToA on a P3C with drop bars in the 40+ race on Monday. Given the many options for aero road frames from Felt, Ridley, Scott and others I don't see the appeal of using a TT frame for this purpose.
09-14-10, 09:50 AM
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I have no idea. I can't say that I've ever even ridden a proper TT bike. The seat angle is a little more upright to make it easier to be in an aero position. But other than that, I would think the head tube angle is about the same.
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09-14-10, 10:10 AM
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Ridley Noah HT angle 73* ST angle 73.5* wheel base 977mm BB drop 66mm chainstay length 405mm
Ridley Dean HT angle 73* ST angle 76* wheel base 980mm BB drop 65mm chainstay length 381mm
Aside from the ST angle the geometry is pretty similar. But I'm guessing the small differences in the other measurements would begin to add up to big differences in overall handling and fit.
Ridley Dean HT angle 73* ST angle 76* wheel base 980mm BB drop 65mm chainstay length 381mm
Aside from the ST angle the geometry is pretty similar. But I'm guessing the small differences in the other measurements would begin to add up to big differences in overall handling and fit.
09-14-10, 10:52 AM
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One of the Cat1 women at Vacaville was on a road-ified Cervelo P3. Her fit looked normal, but then women's frames always look a little cramped to me anyway.
09-14-10, 11:18 AM
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Having seen that frame in person(the generic carbon p3 knock off) I think there are many more aero road frames out there. Are aero road bikes the future? Well yeah, they have been for the last couple years(cervelo, felt, ridley). More and more companies are making aero road bikes just to stay in the game.
09-14-10, 11:23 AM
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I think it is, regardless of the other thread 
Seriously, though, I have no idea why everyone in the ProTour aren't on aero road bikes, like super aero road bikes. With the current weight limit (acknowledged to be outdated due to the fact that it's based on a steel bike, and the UCI will be addressing this at some point) it doesn't make sense to, say, put lead washer weights into Levi's bike. Instead they can make a stiff aero frame.
If folks work out service issues, I think we'll see some interesting stuff come down the pike. Storck's minimal TT brakes are interesting, and now they put them on a (super expensive) road frame. I'd hate to break a spoke or swap from a wide to narrow rim (or vice versa, due to neutral support), but for fast, steady riding...
Even now, you can tell who has domestique duties or GC protection on, say, HTC, because they're the ones running two tall wheels. The ones that need to slice and dice have a shorter front wheel.
Seriously, though, I have no idea why everyone in the ProTour aren't on aero road bikes, like super aero road bikes. With the current weight limit (acknowledged to be outdated due to the fact that it's based on a steel bike, and the UCI will be addressing this at some point) it doesn't make sense to, say, put lead washer weights into Levi's bike. Instead they can make a stiff aero frame.
If folks work out service issues, I think we'll see some interesting stuff come down the pike. Storck's minimal TT brakes are interesting, and now they put them on a (super expensive) road frame. I'd hate to break a spoke or swap from a wide to narrow rim (or vice versa, due to neutral support), but for fast, steady riding...
Even now, you can tell who has domestique duties or GC protection on, say, HTC, because they're the ones running two tall wheels. The ones that need to slice and dice have a shorter front wheel.
09-14-10, 12:39 PM
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How much does an Aero frame really help in a criterium? It seems most, if not all of the advantage is eliminated in a crit, unless you try for a break. But even then, in most cases, the pack will be faster than the break, even when taking into account aerodynamics. Otherwise, you are either in the pack drafting, or you are at the lead, pulling. But any aero advantage would be likely eliminated as you will still hammer just as hard, but just move the pack at a slightly faster clip.
I am still not convinced that in a standard road race or crit that the aero advantage is going to make a difference because of the ability to draft, and the ability of the pack to move faster than a smaller group of rider in the breakaway.
The one situation in amateur racing I can envision (aside from TT) where this would benefit a rider is if that rider is at level above the field, and can make a break, and then essentially TT to the finish line.
I am still not convinced that in a standard road race or crit that the aero advantage is going to make a difference because of the ability to draft, and the ability of the pack to move faster than a smaller group of rider in the breakaway.
The one situation in amateur racing I can envision (aside from TT) where this would benefit a rider is if that rider is at level above the field, and can make a break, and then essentially TT to the finish line.
09-14-10, 01:10 PM
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How much does an Aero frame really help in a criterium? It seems most, if not all of the advantage is eliminated in a crit, unless you try for a break. But even then, in most cases, the pack will be faster than the break, even when taking into account aerodynamics. Otherwise, you are either in the pack drafting, or you are at the lead, pulling. But any aero advantage would be likely eliminated as you will still hammer just as hard, but just move the pack at a slightly faster clip.
I am still not convinced that in a standard road race or crit that the aero advantage is going to make a difference because of the ability to draft, and the ability of the pack to move faster than a smaller group of rider in the breakaway.
The one situation in amateur racing I can envision (aside from TT) where this would benefit a rider is if that rider is at level above the field, and can make a break, and then essentially TT to the finish line.
I am still not convinced that in a standard road race or crit that the aero advantage is going to make a difference because of the ability to draft, and the ability of the pack to move faster than a smaller group of rider in the breakaway.
The one situation in amateur racing I can envision (aside from TT) where this would benefit a rider is if that rider is at level above the field, and can make a break, and then essentially TT to the finish line.
09-14-10, 01:24 PM
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Ex has a good reply for this kind of post...essentially showing one of his wins that came down to less than a tire width..he was on his Noah.
Bottom line is every advantage is just that, an advantage. It may be a small one..like the width of tire...but sometimes that's all you need.
Bottom line is every advantage is just that, an advantage. It may be a small one..like the width of tire...but sometimes that's all you need.
09-14-10, 01:39 PM
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Any improvement in efficiency provides a benefit. The only question is how much and to what effect.
Unless you spend an entire crit following someone from start to finish, greater aerodynamic efficiency is a good thing. There are a dozen or more scenarios that VT biker missed in crits alone. I've won several on a "throw" at the end; in one case by less than a inch. 1% greater drag would have meant that I would have been first loser.
"Barely makes a difference" still makes a difference. And "barely" in a race is often the margin of victory, in professional or amateur racing.
Unless you spend an entire crit following someone from start to finish, greater aerodynamic efficiency is a good thing. There are a dozen or more scenarios that VT biker missed in crits alone. I've won several on a "throw" at the end; in one case by less than a inch. 1% greater drag would have meant that I would have been first loser.
"Barely makes a difference" still makes a difference. And "barely" in a race is often the margin of victory, in professional or amateur racing.
09-14-10, 02:33 PM
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Having seen that frame in person(the generic carbon p3 knock off) I think there are many more aero road frames out there. Are aero road bikes the future? Well yeah, they have been for the last couple years(cervelo, felt, ridley). More and more companies are making aero road bikes just to stay in the game.
09-14-10, 02:43 PM
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I love the way the aero bikes look (S2, AR, etc). That being said, at the level most of us are at, there will be little to zero advantage. Most aero frames weigh quite a bit more than a standard frame so any aero advantage will go away when going up hill. In the scheme of things, the frame makes the least amount of difference in aerodynamics. Position is number one. A racer with a good aero position trumps all.
On another note, I have a brand new pair of these bars sitting around. I would love to build another TT bike for technical courses with these on there.
https://www.amazon.com/3T-Zefiro-Carb.../dp/B003U75QS6
Sastre at 09 Giro TT with a Zefiro with custom extensions.
On another note, I have a brand new pair of these bars sitting around. I would love to build another TT bike for technical courses with these on there.
https://www.amazon.com/3T-Zefiro-Carb.../dp/B003U75QS6
Sastre at 09 Giro TT with a Zefiro with custom extensions.
Last edited by spinwax; 09-14-10 at 02:49 PM.
09-14-10, 03:22 PM
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Yup just painted
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09-14-10, 05:33 PM
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Last edited by spinwax; 09-14-10 at 05:42 PM.
09-14-10, 07:54 PM
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Yeah I think most the guys here just eat nacho's and drink beer and rely on a really aero bike. Nobody in the 33 trains at all....thanks for pointing this out maybe you'll motivate a few of us to get off the couch.