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smoothness and power

Old 10-05-10, 03:14 PM
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smoothness and power

The last couple of weeks after reading some threads here I've tried to push my limits on speed. I've been doing shorter rides at a faster pace.

I assume everyone else experiences less power as they increase their candence or it is just me? I find that as I increase my candence I find a certain flow of power and rpm. But, if I try I can generate more power than what I am putting in. When I start to increase my power I don't feel like my riding is as smooth. Will it get better with time?

Today I did a 20 mile ride at an all out effort. I tried to keep my candence up, but I feel I failed. My legs got tired, but I never felt like cardio got maxed.
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Old 10-05-10, 03:19 PM
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and?
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Old 10-05-10, 03:20 PM
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When I do TT or similar efforts, my average cadence naturally raises from about 95-100rpm to 110rpm. I don't have a powermeter so hard to say anything about my power. I probably would make more power at 100rpm, but I'm able to stay more fresh at the higher rpm and it feels more natural for me for some reason.

Why are you trying to increase your cadence during efforts? Because your legs are getting tired?
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Old 10-05-10, 03:21 PM
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'over there'
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Old 10-05-10, 03:34 PM
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i hate it when i pedal harder and go slower
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Old 10-05-10, 03:36 PM
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you would not like my singlespeed MTB workout in the hay fields. downhills still feel like uphill.
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Old 10-05-10, 04:31 PM
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[QUOTE=Creatre;11575474]When I do TT or similar efforts, my average cadence naturally raises from about 95-100rpm to 110rpm. I don't have a powermeter so hard to say anything about my power. I probably would make more power at 100rpm, but I'm able to stay more fresh at the higher rpm and it feels more natural for me for some reason.

Why are you trying to increase your cadence during efforts? Because your legs are getting tired?[/QUOTE]

I believe if I keep a high candence then I should be able to ride longer faster because I would be working my cardio and not just my legs. Plus, I feel if I am able to apply more power at a higher cadence then I will go faster. I feel like I'm losing out on my max effort. When you are at a high candence do you determine effort to apply. I don't want an all out sprint type effort that I can't sustain, but something where I don't feel like I should be applying more. Or is this just something individual I'll have to figure out.
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Old 10-05-10, 04:38 PM
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Cadence is a Red Herring
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Old 10-05-10, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy
That said, it's good to practice making power at various torque ranges.
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Old 10-05-10, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy
I've read that thread I have purposely left out what my candence is to avoid such arguements. I'm not trying to get to some magical candence number. I'm just trying to figure out how much effort/power others feel they are putting out at higher candences.
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Old 10-05-10, 05:09 PM
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It's my understanding that for SRM cranks, power is a product of cadence and torque. An increase in one, given that the other is constant, will result in an increase in calculated power.

My best power readings were either at very high torque + low RPM efforts (standing starts) or moderate torque + moderate RPM efforts (rolling jumps/accelerations).

Last edited by carleton; 10-05-10 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 10-05-10, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton
It's my understanding that for SRM cranks, power is a product of cadence and torque. An increase in one, given that the other is constant, will result in an increase in calculated power.
Power is always a product of cadence and torque, regardless of how you measure it...
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Old 10-05-10, 05:11 PM
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So, if you can smooth out your cadence and add significant torque at higher RPMs (AKA Aerobic Power), your power numbers will be higher.
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Old 10-05-10, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by umd
Power is always a product of cadence and torque, regardless of how you measure it...
I've never used PowerTap hubs (just the speed + cadence system). How does it calculate power? I know it gets torque via the hub. Is the cadence sensor required?
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Old 10-05-10, 05:23 PM
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c-a-d-e-n-c-e
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Old 10-05-10, 05:32 PM
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If you want to go faster, pedal harder.
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Old 10-05-10, 05:34 PM
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Glad to see the 33 could help out.
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Old 10-05-10, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
If you want to go faster, pedal harder.
I was always taught to think "spin faster" as opposed to "pedal harder".
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Old 10-05-10, 05:53 PM
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Questioner: "Mr. Merckx, is it better to spin a small gear or to mash a big gear?"

Eddy: "It is better to spin a big gear."
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Old 10-05-10, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton
So, if you can smooth out your cadence and add significant torque at higher RPMs (AKA Aerobic Power), your power numbers will be higher.
wtf does smooth out your cadence mean?
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Old 10-05-10, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mike868y
wtf does smooth out your cadence mean?
Not pedaling squares, I would guess.
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Old 10-05-10, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mike868y
wtf does smooth out your cadence mean?
Butt-hops show up around 120 RPM. It's because the muscle firing patterns don't really work. You have to switch it up and learn a new firing sequence. If you learn to adjust your pedal stroke, you can eliminate that and apply power smoothly up to 140 RPM.

I come from the track world.
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Old 10-05-10, 06:26 PM
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Then you're talking about smoothing out your pedal stroke. Cadence is a number. The only cadence smoothing I know of is what some cyclometers can do so the number doesn't change as much.
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Old 10-05-10, 06:49 PM
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Semantics.

I like doing form drills for a few minutes at a time. I find that if I go out for a ride with a goal of hitting a certain cadence, I feel really annoyed and training suffers. If I put in workouts of 5x5min @ 120rpm, etc. Then my cadence improves over time. I prefer doing it that way.

Originally Posted by MDcatV
i hate it when i pedal harder and go slower
Like when you're climbing?
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Old 10-05-10, 06:58 PM
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FWIW I did a 20 minute TT on Friday and had an average cadence of 91 - I can see on the chart where I changed gears to get comfortable. I was not trying to maintain any cadence goals but to keep max average power.

My coach has the group do 5 minute intervals at 90+ RPM.
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