Is there a rule prohibiting wheels such as the HED3 in USAC road races?
Does anyone know is there is a specific rule that prohibits the use of large carbon spoked wheels such as the HED3 in USAC sanctioned road races and criteriums? Thanks.
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Looks like it.
Rule 7J shall apply to road categories B, C, D, and E for the 2010 year, and subsequently apply to all categories in 2011. 7J2. Wheels (a) Wheels used in competition in all Collegiate Road Events must conform with UCI mass-start legal regulations. The UCI maintains a website with the information of approved wheels. But I've raced with H3's in a road race, and so has a teammate of mine. |
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I found that after posting. Apparently 16 spoke wheels is the minimum acceptable under UCI rules for mass starts and of course the HED3 is not on the list of accepted HED wheels. I've raced with a sleeveless jersey, but it was something I got away with and was not in compliance with USAC published rules. Probably that was the same situation with racing with the HEDs. I asked a world champion prior to posting who is really into the rules and he didn't know the answer so I would guess many promoters are happy to get your entry fee and don't particularly want to play police man.
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Originally Posted by Nate552
(Post 11601356)
Looks like it.
Rule 7J shall apply to road categories B, C, D, and E for the 2010 year, and subsequently apply to all categories in 2011. 7J2. Wheels (a) Wheels used in competition in all Collegiate Road Events must conform with UCI mass-start legal regulations. The UCI maintains a website with the information of approved wheels. But I've raced with H3's in a road race, and so has a teammate of mine. See rule 1M, page 58. It never mentions anything about UCI rules, except for national and NRC events. Not sure why collegiate has the rule now but most USAC races don't, but whatever. You could technically run a disc and a tri-spoke in a USAC race if you wanted to. 1M. Bicycles 1M1. Bicycles used in competition must be propelled solely by the rider's legs and shall have the following characteristics: (a) Dimensions. Bicycles may be no more than 2 meters long and 75 cm wide, except that tandems may be up to 3 meters long (b) There may be no protective shield, fairing, or other device on any part of the bicycle, which has the effect of reducing air resistance except that spoke covers may be used (c) Wheels may be made with spokes or solid construction. No wheel may contain special mechanisms to store and release energy (d) The handlebar ends shall be solidly plugged and attachments thereto shall be fashioned in such a way as to minimize danger without impairing steering. Handlebars used for steering with ends, features, or attachments that extend forward or upward or that provide support for other than the rider's hands are permitted only in time trial and pursuit events (not in Team Sprint); however, attachments that point upward on the brakehoods of road bicycles are allowed if the distance between them is greater than 25 cm (9.8 inches). [disqualification] 52 (e) Bicycles must meet current UCI technical regulations at events that select 17-18, U23 and elite riders for international competition or national teams. All bicycles used in National Championships (for age 17 and older riders) and NRC races must comply with the current UCI regulations (f) Bicycles commonly known as recumbent may not be raced in USA Cycling races unless there is a separate race for this category of bicycle, and then may be used only in that category. (g) A mass start bicycle is a road or track bicycle that is legal in all events within the road or track discipline, rather than a bicycle that is restricted to particular events. As an example, a bicycle with handlebars offering forearm support is not a mass start bicycle. (h) Time trial events may restrict the competitors to mass- start bicycles in one or more classes, provided that the restriction is stated in the race announcement and technical guide. This includes time trials in stage races. (i) A Single Speed is any type of bicycle possessing only one rear cog and only one front chainring and with no means of altering the gear ratio in any way for the duration of the race. |
That rule is only for Collegiate Time Trials because (I think...I'm sure that) folks complained that the average college student can't afford aero bikes, aero wheels, and aero gear and were being out-gunned by the few that could. So, they basically said, "Race your mass start bikes in the time trials. No aerobars either."
Personally, I don't have a problem with that. |
that's correct. And I'm also glad they did it. Collegiate Bs don't need to be riding $6k TT rigs.
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Interesting, thanks guys. I'm amazed then that I have never seen a pair of HED3s in a RR or Crit. My significant other used a set to set a PR and win a state TT championship, and I love the way they look. Not going to give up my Zipp 999 set for TTs however, although I believe the HED3 is probably faster than the Zipp 808 that I run on the front - especially if one believes HED's wind tunnel tests.
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The collegiate rule is dumb as hell, at least for the A's. Anyone in the A's who is serious about TT's has a bike.
The teams that can afford to modify TT bikes with drop bars and run 1080's are still going to have a massive advantage with no decrease in cost. For B's downward I think it's great. But collegiate A's should prepare you for high-level summer racing, which involves TT bikes. |
yeah, I was never a fan of the rule for the A's. Most A's are sponsored anyway and getting a good break on their stuff.
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Originally Posted by ZeCanon
(Post 11601825)
The collegiate rule is dumb as hell, at least for the A's. Anyone in the A's who is serious about TT's has a bike.
The teams that can afford to modify TT bikes with drop bars and run 1080's are still going to have a massive advantage with no decrease in cost. For B's downward I think it's great. But collegiate A's should prepare you for high-level summer racing, which involves TT bikes. |
by teams, he means individuals. At least that's how it is in the ACCC. Other than some teams getting good deals on gear (WVU, Zipp and Cdale) I don't know of any teams that get money from the club for bikes.
Most of the A's on my team had a rear disc and a TT bike. It's not all that expensive to get a cheap TT bike and disc, then throw a deep front on. |
The teams that are really in the running will find the equipment. Borrow, sponsorships, etc.
For example: all our guys have TT bikes. We're going to run narrow as hell drop bars on them, super deep wheels, etc. Position will be as close as possible to a regular TT position - and still far more aero than anyone can comfortably get on a road bike. The kids who were doing the Nats TT on road bikes before still will. The kids who were doing them on TT bikes before will just modify them. Advantage is still there. Only now you'll see lots of Invisible Aero Bars, making the TTT even more dangerous. |
Originally Posted by Flatballer
(Post 11601882)
by teams, he means individuals. At least that's how it is in the ACCC. Other than some teams getting good deals on gear (WVU, Zipp and Cdale) I don't know of any teams that get money from the club for bikes.
Most of the A's on my team had a rear disc and a TT bike. It's not all that expensive to get a cheap TT bike and disc, then throw a deep front on.
Originally Posted by ZeCanon
(Post 11601900)
The teams that are really in the running will find the equipment. Borrow, sponsorships, etc.
For example: all our guys have TT bikes. We're going to run narrow as hell drop bars on them, super deep wheels, etc. Position will be as close as possible to a regular TT position - and still far more aero than anyone can comfortably get on a road bike. The kids who were doing the Nats TT on road bikes before still will. The kids who were doing them on TT bikes before will just modify them. Advantage is still there. Only now you'll see lots of Invisible Aero Bars, making the TTT even more dangerous. |
I think I had managed to get down to about 190 for this one, in 2004. I started the Series at 198-200 after hitting 215+ in the off season (my mom died the previous August and I hadn't been doing much training for 2-3 years).
I still have the wheels but don't use them for a few reasons - Shimano, heavy, bent braking surface. The latter is probably the biggest factor since I get a nice "thunk thunk thunk" when I brake. I got the wheels from a teammate after he double flatted TUBULARS hitting a huge pothole at 45+ mph... the impact bent both rims too. I got most of the dents out using channel locks. HED should be redoing their HED3s - it's the only wheelset that doesn't use their "wide" theory. They deepened them up for 2011 I think. http://www.krislau.com/cycling/bethe...g_4949_std.jpg I was using my Saeco kit just because. And, no, I'm not wearing a jacket under all that. It's all me baby! cdr |
I've re-shaped H3 rims with a ball peen hammer and anvil
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Wouldn't the ride quality of a 3 spoke wheel be a liitle harsh after 50-60 miles?
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people use them for Ironman triathlons, so I'd imagine it can't be that bad. A disc is no picnic either, but it's not that bad.
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Originally Posted by mcjimbosandwich
(Post 11601860)
what team/teams might that be? i don't think any in the ECCC could pull of that sort of stuff (buying things outright). Though granted, for the ECCC championships, we had one of our sponsor lend us 404, bontrager aelous 5, and american classic 58 for free for the weekend.
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Originally Posted by curiouskid55
(Post 11613449)
Wouldn't the ride quality of a 3 spoke wheel be a liitle harsh after 50-60 miles?
I did a team time trial this year which was 40 miles, plus warmup and cooldown, so closer to 60. Disc rear and H3 front. Very comfortable. Oh, and I ride to TTs a lot. One of them is a 12.5mi TT but it is far from the house so it ends up being 50 or so. Also no problem. |
What frame grumpy?
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Originally Posted by Nate552
(Post 11601356)
Looks like it.
Rule 7J shall apply to road categories B, C, D, and E for the 2010 year, and subsequently apply to all categories in 2011. 7J2. Wheels (a) Wheels used in competition in all Collegiate Road Events must conform with UCI mass-start legal regulations. The UCI maintains a website with the information of approved wheels. But I've raced with H3's in a road race, and so has a teammate of mine. |
Originally Posted by Nate552
(Post 12239396)
Now that it's 2011, anyone ran into a problem using a H3 for a mass start race?
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Originally Posted by curiouskid55
(Post 11622532)
What frame grumpy?
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Originally Posted by Flatballer
(Post 12239421)
By all categories they meant all collegiate categories, A-E. Still no rule for regular USAC stuff that doesn't have to conform to UCI.
In one rulebook (For Championship Events) http://www.usacycling.org/forms/uci/...egulations.pdf it says: "For mass start races if the wheel does not pass the test of being “traditional” it must be specifically approved by the UCI. The regulations define a “traditional wheel” as any wheel with a rim with any cross section dimension no larger than 2.5 cm and with a minimum of 16 metallic spokes, whose maximum cross section does not exceed 2.4 mm." Granted, I'm not doing a Championship Event this weekend, but over zealous refs make me nervous. The UCI list for non-traditional wheels does not include H3's. But I'm not doing |
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