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Prize money.

Old 10-12-10, 08:09 AM
  #1  
Creakyknees
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Prize money.

We are amateurs. We should not race for money.

Merchandise, gift certificates, coupons... sure, no problem.

Cash / checks? No.

Ok, maybe the occasional cash prime, but none of this "$2,000 to 10 places" for a cat 3 race.

Think of it this way: prize lists increase the costs of promoting a bike race. I'd rather have more and more diverse racing opportunities, than yet another $17 for 9th place.

I think I'll propose a rule change for next year.
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Old 10-12-10, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
We are amateurs. We should not race for money.

Merchandise, gift certificates, coupons... sure, no problem.

Cash / checks? No.

Ok, maybe the occasional cash prime, but none of this "$2,000 to 10 places" for a cat 3 race.

Think of it this way: prize lists increase the costs of promoting a bike race. I'd rather have more and more diverse racing opportunities, than yet another $17 for 9th place.

I think I'll propose a rule change for next year.
Why do amateur fishermen win $$$ for winning tournaments?
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Old 10-12-10, 08:23 AM
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whew. i've never raced for a 2k purse in a cat 3 race. i did mysteriously win 90 for 4th in a cat 4 race, though. i

i respect the notion of not racing for money. merch is cool and a good way to involve potential sponsors who can't front cash, but do want advertising. i'd like there to be a middle ground in this conversation wherein winning your reg money back is more of a prize than it is a cash award. if i were promoting a race series, for example, i'd look long and hard into the feasability of comping top-tenners for the next race. [but i'm not a promoter, so it's an armchair pursuit]

the tour of the hilltowns, in their racer packet, published how much of an entry fee goes toward various expenses. it was interesting to see and provided fodder for thinking about how races could conceivably be cheaper.
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Old 10-12-10, 08:34 AM
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I've been in races where the prizes were worth far more than what a cash purse would be. I was in a Cat 4 race in California where the winner won a set Sidi Ergo1 shoes (about 400 retail). I don't really see the difference in giving cash or merchandise, if the promoter can afford the payout then he's making really good money. I do however have an issue with 5's getting anything more than a t-shirt and job well done. I also am against mixed 4/5 fields but that's another argument.
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Old 10-12-10, 08:34 AM
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Why are merchandise and gift certificates so different from money, in your mind. Certainly the merchandise is sellable for money.
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Old 10-12-10, 08:40 AM
  #6  
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when I promoted a race last season I went to the LBS and asked him if he had any merch he wanted to donate so I could give prizes. You'd be surprised at how much stuff he gave me for nothing. It was obviously a better deal for me than giving cash away (which would have been impossible).
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Old 10-12-10, 08:46 AM
  #7  
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Honestly I want cash

Covers race entry fee, travel expenses etc.

Where I have an issue is promoters not paying - I am still waiting for 2 checks from the summer that I have contacted the promoter about and he says they are still trying to finalize results - from two months ago???

I knew guys who could not go home unless one of them won prize money to pay for gas/food.

I also love primes whether they be gift certs or prizes but for race results I still think it should be cash...
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Old 10-12-10, 08:51 AM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
We are amateurs. We should not race for money.

Merchandise, gift certificates, coupons... sure, no problem.

Cash / checks? No.

Ok, maybe the occasional cash prime, but none of this "$2,000 to 10 places" for a cat 3 race.

Think of it this way: prize lists increase the costs of promoting a bike race. I'd rather have more and more diverse racing opportunities, than yet another $17 for 9th place.

I think I'll propose a rule change for next year.
I promote a local race.. we only give out "gift cards" cause I don't want to deal with anymore things to do, day of race... easier for me... The gift cards are from a local "convience / gas " store.. so you can buy gas, food.. what ever they sell... Folks seem to like them.

I give out prizes.. so there is at least the incentive to get back "gas money" We only pay 6 deep and because USAC takes 5% of the prize money once you're above 1999.99 I keep my race below that... I would like to offer more, but I refuse to give USAC any more fees.
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Old 10-12-10, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ri_us View Post
Why are merchandise and gift certificates so different from money, in your mind. Certainly the merchandise is sellable for money.
Cause I can't split a wheelset with teammates for helping me out...
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Old 10-12-10, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Colonelmom View Post
I promote a local race.. we only give out "gift cards" cause I don't want to deal with anymore things to do, day of race... easier for me... The gift cards are from a local "convience / gas " store.. so you can buy gas, food.. what ever they sell... Folks seem to like them.

I give out prizes.. so there is at least the incentive to get back "gas money" We only pay 6 deep and because USAC takes 5% of the prize money once you're above 1999.99 I keep my race below that... I would like to offer more, but I refuse to give USAC any more fees.

I like your thought on this - pay my gas home, let me buy something to eat and I'm happy
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Old 10-12-10, 09:03 AM
  #11  
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nah. Think about the married guys racing for a second.

Whats better for them?

"Hey honey I spent half the weekend ignoring you doing my racing thing and got a JERSEY!! Look at it!!"

OR

"Hey honey I spent half the weekend ignoring you doing my racing thing and won FIFTY BUCKS! Lets go out to dinner!"



not married anymore but I still remember how the game is scored...
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Old 10-12-10, 09:14 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by billh92109 View Post
nah. Think about the married guys racing for a second.

Whats better for them?

"Hey honey I spent half the weekend ignoring you doing my racing thing and got a JERSEY!! Look at it!!"

OR

"Hey honey I spent half the weekend ignoring you doing my racing thing and won FIFTY BUCKS! Lets go out to dinner!"



not married anymore but I still remember how the game is scored...
You are sooooo right about that....my wife is a lot less annoyed by my being gone when I come home with some cash..matter of fact it's the first thing she asks me when I say I'm racing.....can you win some money?
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Old 10-12-10, 09:21 AM
  #13  
rkwaki
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Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo View Post
You are sooooo right about that....my wife is a lot less annoyed by my being gone when I come home with some cash..matter of fact it's the first thing she asks me when I say I'm racing.....can you win some money?
That's why my wife is involved with all my riding - she wants to make sure I ride for the right team that has some strength and keeps me on check with diet to make sure I can produce.
Nothing like taking mama out for dinner with a little prize money you won.
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Old 10-12-10, 09:27 AM
  #14  
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"prize money you won" ... seriously?

~ $2k for a bike
~ gas money
~ hotel money
~ kit, accessories
~ entry fees (including all the races you raced and didn't win anything)

yeah... you're really ahead of the game with that $50.

If your wife doesn't understand your obsession, that's a whole other problem.
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Old 10-12-10, 09:28 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
That's why my wife is involved with all my riding - she wants to make sure I ride for the right team that has some strength and keeps me on check with diet to make sure I can produce.
Nothing like taking mama out for dinner with a little prize money you won.
Makes it seem like you are making money racing, never mind all the other expenses. Reminds me of the guy who said he bought something because it gave him a tax break. Hey, if you want to give me a $1.00, I'll give you 28 cents back all day long.

But seriously, I'm with you guys I won't point this out to the SO.
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Old 10-12-10, 09:29 AM
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creaky and I think alike
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Old 10-12-10, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dbikingman View Post
Makes it seem like you are making money racing, never mind all the other expenses. Reminds me of the guy who said he bought something because it gave him a tax break. Hey, if you want to give me a $1.00, I'll give you 28 cents back all day long.

But seriously, I'm with you guys I won't point this out to the SO.
Could be part of the old mindset - In my prior life I did not pay to race, did not pay for equipment, didn't pay for squat during the race season (off season was my responsibility.
At this point I would race regardless - but would I travel 1/2 way across the country to do a weekend of racing if there was no chance of a little prize money? No. At this point I would travel no more than 7 hours to race for a weekend.
I look at it as a reward for the hard work put in - I would do it anyways but that is just a little icing on the cake.
Now would you feel the same way if the payout was $2000 or if primes were $500? Do you still look at it the same way? Highly unlikely.
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Old 10-12-10, 09:52 AM
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Money is nice but it's not what I'm racing for. That being said, I'd rather win $$ then merchandise, like mentioned above, if you do have teammates who helped you get your result you can easily split the $$. You can then buy what you want. A gift cert to a store/restaurant 80+ miles from my house isn't going to do me any good unless I use it that day, which I am usually in a hurry to get home.

I race because I love it, and just saying I got 1st, 2nd, 10th, 58th etc. keeps me coming back for more. If I was dependent winning money, I'd be in deep *****. I never really look at the payout, if I want to do the race, I do it.
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Old 10-12-10, 09:55 AM
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I'm adamantly against large prize lists for anyone Cat 3-4. It encourages sandbagging. Want to win money? Upgrade to Cat 2. Until then it should be a hobby, in all definitions (not just the IRS's).

I've watched some insane moves for a couple hundred dollars in Cat 3 races. $900 for a win? Watch out, esp if the prize list is $900, $500, $250, $90. If you guessed I got 4th that day, you guessed right.

cdr
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Old 10-12-10, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
Could be part of the old mindset - In my prior life I did not pay to race, did not pay for equipment, didn't pay for squat during the race season (off season was my responsibility.
At this point I would race regardless - but would I travel 1/2 way across the country to do a weekend of racing if there was no chance of a little prize money? No. At this point I would travel no more than 7 hours to race for a weekend.
I look at it as a reward for the hard work put in - I would do it anyways but that is just a little icing on the cake.
Now would you feel the same way if the payout was $2000 or if primes were $500? Do you still look at it the same way? Highly unlikely.
I guess it depends on what cat you are racing, for me, there are no cat3 races around where the payout is 2k or big $$ primes. I take it you are a cat1 or pro? On that level I can understand the need for big payouts and making money racing, but as a 36 yo cat3 with a job, wife and kids, it's all about fun and competition.
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Old 10-12-10, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
I think I'll propose a rule change for next year.
Make the proposal under an assumed name if you're not fond of rattlesnakes mixed in with the junk mail. And let the TXBRA website guy bump up server capacity beforehand. You can use my place in the mountains if it gets too scary.
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Old 10-12-10, 10:03 AM
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the clogs have it worked out so much better.

super low entry fees and token prize money.
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Old 10-12-10, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by botto View Post
the clogs have it worked out so much better.

super low entry fees and token prize money.
this would be so much better.
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Old 10-12-10, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by botto View Post
the clogs have it worked out so much better.

super low entry fees and token prize money.
No objection here.
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Old 10-12-10, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
"prize money you won" ... seriously?

~ $2k for a bike
~ gas money
~ hotel money
~ kit, accessories
~ entry fees (including all the races you raced and didn't win anything)

yeah... you're really ahead of the game with that $50.

If your wife doesn't understand your obsession, that's a whole other problem.
No my wife understands my obsession...but for whatever reason she is happy when I can at least say I paid my entry fees and gas. Trust me she knows that our trip to Ft Davis is all in the red. In comparison to my old obsession which was auto racing I can basically pay for an entire season of bike racing on just over my one weekend car racing budget...so bikes are cheap.

But like just about everyone else here I don't do it for the money..and I could care less if there is a payout of cash or prizes...what I don't understand is how you can be okay with merchandise but not cash. Winning a pair of carbon shoes worth 200+ bucks isn't really any different than getting a 50.00 check. But if the promoters only did payouts of any kind (cash or prizes) for the P1/2 fields I'd still race as would 99.9% of us.

I don't think my wife or anybody here thinks that 50.00 puts you ahead of the game...however the old saying holds true...a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down...if winning 50.00 makes my wife happy who am I to argue?

Last edited by El Diablo Rojo; 10-12-10 at 10:17 AM.
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