Brian Ratliff

I submit this to the BF brain trust. It's about as good as I can get myself on my own. I am nominally a sprinter, but I want to get into some TT's next season and train on the TT bike over the winter. Turns out there's these things called "hills" and "crosswinds" between the start line and the finish that I need to get past to contest the sprint . I have stopped squirming by about a minute in. The out-of-the-saddle stuff is just to see if my knees hit the pads; our TT's usually have some hills, so the out-of-the-saddle position has some importance.

No techno music. I promise. Just some TV background noise. And yes, it's a Scattante frame. It was cheap and it's not the worst frame in the world for the price. The whole thing is a bit of a spare parts build.

Also, I don't have a helmet yet. If anyone has suggestions, particularly if you know of one that'll work well in the position I have, I welcome them.

Quel

Looks pretty decent. Only thing I really notice is with the seat. You have a setback post but then have it jammed way forward and angled down a lot. How's it feel on the road? With that combo, I'd imagine your arms get pretty fatigued. I think you could stand to move the seat forward, as your hips are fairly far back. That would also straighten out elbow angle to closer to a 90*.

esammuli

Looks pretty solid for the most part. Try leveling out the saddle. The way you have it set up will cause you to slide forward and create stress in your back and shoulders. Also, try reshooting the video from a bit further back so we can see your feet. It's hard to get a feel whether or not your saddle height is correct.

Nate552

Looks pretty good, but what's up with that seat/ seat angle? If the seat is like that for comfort reasons, I'd get a TT specific saddle like an Adamo of V-flow so you can have some support and not stress you upper body. As for a helmet, it depends. On everything. There is really no way of knowing without some field testing, etc. But any aero helmet would be an improvement.

Brian Ratliff

Yea. The saddle is one area where wasn't sure about. How level do people normally have it? I've tried it flat like on my road bike; it's a tad (okay, more than a tad) uncomfortable in the slammed position.

Also, any thoughts on the elbow angle? It's not perfectly vertical but I'm not sure if it needs to be. From an aerodynamics standpoint, a less-than-90deg angle on the upper arm is more aerodynamic (superman position). However, I don't know how this affects power production.

Racer Ex 

I'd have you pull your elbows back. That seat is not going to be fun for anything other than a prologue, you'll eventually want something TT/Tri specific. Seat angle is something you may end up playing with, goal is not to be sliding forward or feel like your hips are being pulled back. Eventually you'll break the rails on it with that current set up. Wrist angle looks like it could cause fatigue. Giro II or LG Rocket seem to be good middle ground on helmets...to optimize that you really need to test.

That frames flexes like crazy when you get out of the saddle, just a heads up. I've got a rebranded version and I've snapped chains, and had it go into "autoshift" mode when I've been climbing on mine.

Brian Ratliff

Just out of curiosity, do you have a favorite saddle? I really have no idea about TT saddles. And about the elbows... should I adjust saddle or bars?

Oy vey... . I'll keep an eye on it. Might replace it sooner rather than later.

Racer Ex 

Not necessarily, and especially not in a UCI complaint position or something close. A lot of other variables in that equation. short answer is pulling your elbows back a bit in what you're showing us could improve CdA, and will most likely improve both stability and decrease your fatigue curve for your neck, arms, and shoulders.

A front shot would be helpful.

Racer Ex 

Elbow pads if possible (for the adjustment). Check out Hida's TT position thread for more info on the why and how. I like the Vision Tech saddle, they show up on Ebay for around $40 sometimes. But like road saddles, it's a personal thing and you'll get several recommendations. Having TT'd on what you've currently got on there I can tell you you'll have an unhappy taint.

Quel

Yep. Personally I have an Adamo Road (it has a bit more padding than some other adamo models) and really like it. There are tons of nearly-new ones on the used market too, since it's a popular choice for people to at least try once.

esammuli

+1 for Adamo. They take a bit of getting used to, but they're fantastic TT saddles. They give you a lot of flexibility to find a good position because they don't put any pressure on your taint. They suck when you're on the bullhorns but that shouldn't matter.

Nate552

Depends on yaw. But I agree with Ex, move your elbows back. As for seats, borrow or try an adamo, but give it more than 1 ride as it takes a bit to get your tissue used to the different contact points. Also, set up is crucial. There is a video on setting it up on the web. The Vision TT saddle and V-flows are also popular in the Slowtwitch world.

ridethecliche

SMP Saddle!

Brian Ratliff

I'll take a minute and thank you all for the advice. You guys are all extremely helpful. I'll make changes tonight and see how it works. It's been a work in progress over the last couple days.

Brian Ratliff

What issues does the Adamo have in the bullhorns? Is it just uncomfortable, or is it a control issue with the saddle lacking a nose? I ask because, like I said in the OP, Oregon TTs generally have some form of hills which are sometimes better taken out of the aero position. Under 15mph and with me weighing in at something like 175-180lbs, I feel the emphasis should be on power production rather than aerodynamics.

esammuli

Just a small lack of comfort. Nothing that would effect you during a race. It's only a problem if you plan to spend tons of times out of the aero position while training. Hint: You shouldn't be.

Hida Yanra

Brian, one thing that you will notice as soon as you start wearing an aero helmet is that your head and neck position needs to be quite different than it you or I or any normal person would hold themselves otherwise.
Short of testing individual helmets on your position, the ones RX listed will be good buys. It is important to get used to wearing the helmet while training so that you get used to that different positioning. (yes, I wear mine while on the trainer) I can draw a quick diagram if it would help, but while the way you have your head right now feels correct without a helmet - with a helmet the tail would be way out & up in the air.

Your arms are not vertical, and if you ran a longer saddle/different post that issue might correct itself without any further changes needed. Having your arms vertical will help out a whole lot with comfort... my positions in the past have been w/ arms canted back like yours are now, and since making the change about a week ago my skeletal/muscular comfort is way better.

Adamos are a good saddle anyway so you might get one just to try - they hold their value on the used market rather well. Or, we could probably work something out to get you my Vision saddle over the winter (I'm currently riding a vision, but am planning on switching to an Adamo around christmas/newyears)
I'm an SMP fanboy (they are on all my roadbikes) but even so they aren't quite right for me in a TT position... FWIW.
Cobb saddles have seem to be pretty well accepted, certainly a higher percentage than most saddles, but I haven't ridden one myself.

Once you get the saddle/post in a setup that works well for you, consider your stem length... depending on your framesize and your body's position, your stem might need to change a smidge.

To get used to holding the position, it is super-helpful to have video feedback as you ride - I set up my mac with photobooth to record and display video as I ride... helps me make adjustments on the fly and see when I'm slacking on my body/helmet/arm position.

RE: out of the saddle climbs - I think we are probably going to be at most of the same stage races this next year, and I'm planning on doing most of those climbs seated - my climbing seems to work out in favor of climbing seated in the aero position the vast majority of the time... but I anticipate starting a thread on that later on in the winter. (especially since there's a good number of us considering some of the same (climby) SRs.)

Another question - Are you going to be TTing with a computer or without? If with, where are you planning on mounting that computer? From your current position a stem mount is going to be very hard to see, and if you move further into a "pillar arms" position it will only get worse.

While you are training for TTs, be sure that you are making your training as realistic as possible - it won't be helpful to your cause if you have to reconfigure body patterns you worked on for a few months when significant changes happen based on computer position, saddle type, helmet position, etc.

Hida Yanra

yep.
check esammuli's results from cascade... he knows what's up (and I do mean up)

Esammuli posted while I was typing out my screed, so it's good to see what he had to say

Racer Ex 

Yep. But good to practice climbing in the aerobars too, headwinds can often give you enough airspeed to make that more efficient.

Racer Ex 

Are we doing Hood?

Computer...damn a heads up display would be cool. We need to get all this e-talent to work on something useful rather than phone apps.

Hida Yanra

Yeah - I'm in for Hood, CBlossom, Elkhorn for sure, and pretty hopeful for Cascade, High Desert, & Eugene.
cdr saw just such a thing at interbike and posted about it on his blog(or here?)... heads-up display on the inside of a visor... super handy. Might still be a year out at this point though.

esammuli

Ironically that was probably my worst TT of the year.

Racer Ex 

We need to all get together and have a beer after the crit. Or during if things haven't been going well.

esammuli

For what it's worth, my forearms are nearly touching and I can still see my powertap. It's just a matter or positioning the computer in a good spot between the extensions.

Nate552

Yep, it's pretty easy to throw something together that will hold a computer between extensions.