Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Would you race here?

Old 03-22-11, 01:27 PM
  #1  
jwible
Draught
Thread Starter
 
jwible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4,051

Bikes: N-1 where N = number needed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Would you race here?

https://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=3...04866&t=h&z=18

This is the local fair grounds. The loop on the right is about half a mile long and two narrow lanes.

The other option would be racing in downtown and having to shutdown part of one state road and one local road, clearing traffic from residential streets, but it would provide a much more scenic venue in the heart of downtown.

https://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=3...04866&t=h&z=18

Just NW of downtown going from Madison to College to Temple to Jackson back to Madison.

Jackson is a major road that doesn't have an easy bypass.

Thoughts?
jwible is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 03:02 PM
  #2  
McTufferton
Senior Member
 
McTufferton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Not a lot of detail in your question, but it sounds like you're planning your first race. IMO, the best races are held in close proximity to restaurants, businesses and homes that are also willing to participate in the days activities through outdoor dining, promotions, BBQ's, etc. While more difficult to successfully pull-off, the effort always makes for a more memorable race experience for all.

That's a long way of saying that I'd race the second option before I'd race the first, especially if it meant doing any travel.
McTufferton is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 03:05 PM
  #3  
jwible
Draught
Thread Starter
 
jwible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4,051

Bikes: N-1 where N = number needed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
We're trying to figure out a local venue for a crit. No office parks to speak of, but we have a nice downtown area with good restaurants, historic buildings, nice atmosphere etc. The problem would be permitting a race in a historic / residential / business area. The fairgrounds are out in the boonies even by my standards. No road closures, police, residential issues, but not exactly an exciting locale.
jwible is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 04:33 PM
  #4  
EventServices
Announcer
 
EventServices's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Detroit's North Side.
Posts: 5,108

Bikes: More than I need, really.

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked 36 Times in 13 Posts
First, I commend you greatly for putting on a race on either course. Well done! It's a thankless job, so I'm not permitted to thank you.

You'll get racers at both courses. They'd race in a bath tub if you let them.
There's a really tight turn on the fairgrounds course, but riders will race it anyway. The ones who don't win anything will give you an earful afterward about how dangerous the course is. The ones who DO win money will be fine with it.

You might get spectators at the downtown course. You'll need a ton of volunteers. You may find it tough getting the community to allow you to shut down the roadways. But you have to stress that events like these are what add to the quality of life of your community. It brings people to town who might otherwise never visit. They buy gas and food and blah blah blah.

I put on a race in my town, and it was murder getting the businesses to go along with it. Our Mayor recognizes the importance of special events, and he said the best thing: We drag our business owners kicking and screaming in the direction of prosperity.

Obviously, you'll have an easier time securing the fairgrounds. It's basically plug-and-play there. But that doesn't really do the sport as much good as putting it in a downtown area and making an EVENT out of it.
EventServices is offline  
Old 03-22-11, 04:43 PM
  #5  
Homebrew01
Super Moderator
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,761

Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1139 Post(s)
Liked 738 Times in 495 Posts
We used to put on a downtown criterium. It was a good course, but there were always a couple of stores that made a big stink about losing business. That could be true for them. If they are dependant on locals driving to their store, and now the roads are closed, the locals will go somewhere else.

Also, as mentioned, you need lots of help with marshalling. It's a long day, and you need to cover the corners, parking lots etc .... We made a map of the course, and got people to sign up for each spot in shifts.

If you're new to running a race, it might make sense to go with the easier location for a year or two, to see how it goes. Not all the people that say they will help actually do. "Yeah, sure, no problem..." ......... 2 days before .."I just remembered it's my nephew's birthday ..."
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.

FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Homebrew01 is offline  
Old 03-23-11, 06:23 AM
  #6  
jwible
Draught
Thread Starter
 
jwible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4,051

Bikes: N-1 where N = number needed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks guys. I'm leaning towards the fairgrounds for a starter venue as it's much simpler and requires far fewer resources than trying to do a downtown crit.
jwible is offline  
Old 03-23-11, 06:24 AM
  #7  
shovelhd
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I second the praise for your efforts.

My absolute favorite races are downtown criteriums, the bigger the better. But I understand how hard it can be to pull one off and make it stick. My club ran one downtown for several years until some of the connected businesses b*tched to the mayor loud enough to kill it, even though they had no problem with shutting down the same streets for First Night, the Taste of the city (for an entire weekend), and the Gay Pride parade. Politics may be the deciding factor. But if you can pull it off, that would be my overwhelming choice.

Can you close the roads, or at least manage the traffic on the fairground route? It looks like the course is between a main road and access to several businesses. Getting that well managed will have a significant effect on the safety of the venue. You will have to do some good politicking with those businesses to get buy-in. Overall, the course would be nothing special without that 120 degree turn at the end of the straightaway. This will be the threshing machine that will make racing interesting. Managing spectators on the outside of that turn will be important as there will be plenty of action there. And to answer your question, sure, I would race this course.

Best of luck to you.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 03-23-11, 08:15 AM
  #8  
jwible
Draught
Thread Starter
 
jwible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4,051

Bikes: N-1 where N = number needed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The one big kicker I see with the downtown course (proposed by my sandbagging cat 3 teammate) is that there is a funeral home smack in the middle of one of the blocks. Pretty hard to argue that you can restrict traffic and parking for a funeral home on a weekend day given the nature of their business and unpredictable usage patterns.
jwible is offline  
Old 03-23-11, 01:44 PM
  #9  
topflightpro
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,519
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1831 Post(s)
Liked 651 Times in 411 Posts
The cost and effort to do a downtown crit is substantially more than doing it on a closed course like that fairground.

Up here in NC, we have several race series that race on closed courses - some are oval, banked auto race tracks, others are fairgrounds like you have. The racing is still solid. Crowds are limited to racers and racers' families/supporters, but plenty of people still show up.

If this is the first race you are putting on, I suggest going with the fairground.

And good luck trying to shut down a state highway.
topflightpro is offline  
Old 03-23-11, 06:10 PM
  #10  
wanders
going roundy round
 
wanders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: High Point, NC
Posts: 6,085
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
... others are fairgrounds like you have. The racing is still solid. Crowds are limited to racers and racers' families/supporters, but plenty of people still show up.

If this is the first race you are putting on, I suggest going with the fairground.

And good luck trying to shut down a state highway.
Yessir. Dixie Classic started up last night. I think they added a few more manhole covers since last year.

Dixie Classic fairgrounds-



I too applaud your efforts and vote for the fairgrounds. Throw down a few haybales on the upper right corner and let 'er rip. Good luck.

Last edited by wanders; 03-23-11 at 06:17 PM.
wanders is offline  
Old 03-23-11, 06:35 PM
  #11  
Bob Dopolina 
Mr. Dopolina
 
Bob Dopolina's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 10,205

Bikes: KUUPAS, Simpson VR

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times in 39 Posts
+1 on the fairgrounds.

Get the race side of it right first (by this I mean all the logistics of putting on a race) and once you can handle that step up the venue. You'll have a much better package to present to the city if you've already got a few races (with PHOTOS/VIDEO) under your belt.

One good idea I saw here was a race combined with a family/leisure ride. The organizer started a leisure ride from a central location that finished at the race course. There were stalls to buy food and drink (hot dog style carts or like the trucks you see at the beach) and entertainment in the form of some bike racing.

There were hundreds of people who stuck around to watch the racing in the middle of nowhere. This might require partnering with a few local shops but might be worth considering. When you're ready to step up the event you'll have a broader base to build on.

My two bits. Good luck.
__________________
BDop Cycling Company Ltd.: bdopcycling.com, facebook, instagram



Bob Dopolina is offline  
Old 03-23-11, 06:52 PM
  #12  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,816

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2934 Post(s)
Liked 3,028 Times in 1,384 Posts
Originally Posted by jwible View Post
https://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=3...04866&t=h&z=18

This is the local fair grounds. The loop on the right is about half a mile long and two narrow lanes.

The other option would be racing in downtown and having to shutdown part of one state road and one local road, clearing traffic from residential streets, but it would provide a much more scenic venue in the heart of downtown.

https://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=3...04866&t=h&z=18

Just NW of downtown going from Madison to College to Temple to Jackson back to Madison.

Jackson is a major road that doesn't have an easy bypass.

Thoughts?
Can you do anything interesting with those loops on the left? You could have a lot of fun with that. I'd definitely race that course.
caloso is online now  
Old 03-23-11, 08:58 PM
  #13  
EventServices
Announcer
 
EventServices's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Detroit's North Side.
Posts: 5,108

Bikes: More than I need, really.

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked 36 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Can you do anything interesting with those loops on the left?
Yes, use them for parking.

Also, the OP will want to check the distance on that fairgrounds course. I measure the longest straight section (on the far right) as being only 200m total. I think you need 200m from the last turn to the finish line, plus some roll-out area past the finish line.
Talk to your local official about that soon.
EventServices is offline  
Old 03-24-11, 08:16 AM
  #14  
Creakyknees
ride lots be safe
 
Creakyknees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
1. the fairground looks fine, also I'd check out the outermost loop road on the left for more potential course length.
2. the fairground might make a good weeknight course, consider that once you get your feet wet.
3. + eleventy on "do a downtown crit in conjunction with a fundraiser / rally in a small town" - our club's race is that setup and the Chamber of Commerce loves it - they have the rally, an art-music festival, and the race all in the weekend and they have demonstrated real $ ROI back to the community, so this year they are upping their sponsorship by a LOT.
Creakyknees is offline  
Old 03-24-11, 09:22 AM
  #15  
jwible
Draught
Thread Starter
 
jwible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4,051

Bikes: N-1 where N = number needed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Good point on the course length. I think running it counter clockwise you could do the finish just before the sharp turn and rollout into the parking area.
jwible is offline  
Old 03-24-11, 09:29 AM
  #16  
carpediemracing 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Posts: 15,379

Bikes: Tsunami road bikes, Dolan DF4 track

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 379 Post(s)
Liked 166 Times in 92 Posts
Fairground races tend to be pretty sketchy. I didn't make money in one but it was a thrilling race - you try and move up and not faceplant on a food vendor's cart at the same time (all the carts were out but locked up - this was in Detroit). The roads are a lot more narrow at 30-35 mph - the race will be single file much of the time.

Having said that, an event beats a non-event. Fairgrounds, get your feet wet, figure out how to do registration and all that, and then go from there.

A local downtown crit got canceled after the police bill went from $10k to $25k (used to be subsidized by the municipality). Cities are tough - in Stamford CT, last I checked, if you wanted a second cop at an event, it would cost you 4x as much as the first ($38/hr for regular officer, second officer is $38, but two officers need a supervisor who doesn't work but costs 2x or $76/hr). This quickly derailed my plans for a crit there.

If you have questions etc you can PM me. I practice holding a race 6 times a year, use BikeReg, and have a lot of automated stuff set up. Not enough, but a lot. I use Excel, BikeReg, and it's relatively straightforward to post results before the last racers get home from the race. I also have automated USACycling results formatting so I don't have to do much to send in the required results to USAC.

Good luck with your race/s,
cdr
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 03-24-11, 12:31 PM
  #17  
topflightpro
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,519
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1831 Post(s)
Liked 651 Times in 411 Posts
Originally Posted by wanders View Post
Yessir. Dixie Classic started up last night. I think they added a few more manhole covers since last year.

Dixie Classic fairgrounds-


.
That's exactly the fairground race I was talking about. Fun course. That turn at the left side of the photo is a lot tighter than it looks in the picture. I banged my pedal about a half dozen times going around in on a solo-attempt. That breakaway lasted all the way to the last lap, when I got caught and passed on the final sprint - I had nothing left to outsprint everyone.
topflightpro is offline  
Old 03-24-11, 04:53 PM
  #18  
wanders
going roundy round
 
wanders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: High Point, NC
Posts: 6,085
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I fell asleep at the wheel, got gapped on the back stretch, in the wind just as a surge started. I tt'd until you guys came around and rejoined the field only to get spat upon by a girl from harkey's team. It was unintentional, once again I was in the wrong place at right time. Say hi next time you're there. I'm the heaviest one there.
wanders is offline  
Old 03-24-11, 08:50 PM
  #19  
EventServices
Announcer
 
EventServices's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Detroit's North Side.
Posts: 5,108

Bikes: More than I need, really.

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked 36 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
. I didn't make money in one but it was a thrilling race - you try and move up and not faceplant on a food vendor's cart at the same time (all the carts were out but locked up - this was in Detroit). The roads are a lot more narrow at 30-35 mph - the race will be single file much of the time.

cdr
Michigan State Fairgrounds. Part of the Tour de Michigan.
I raced that one.
We still talk about that course as being the worst one ever.
EventServices is offline  
Old 03-25-11, 04:14 AM
  #20  
carpediemracing 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Posts: 15,379

Bikes: Tsunami road bikes, Dolan DF4 track

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 379 Post(s)
Liked 166 Times in 92 Posts
Originally Posted by EventServices View Post
Michigan State Fairgrounds. Part of the Tour de Michigan.
I raced that one.
We still talk about that course as being the worst one ever.
haha. Well, don't discourage an up and coming promoter!

I was thinking about that race yesterday. One section where we went through a small parking lot and through a chain link fence. It may have been my imagination but I think someone hit the fence at warp speed trying to move up. I'm sure I went onto the grass a couple times, trying to move up and failing to find room. It was there or the Danbury Crit (in CT) a long time ago, on the "first" course.

I just remember thinking before the Detroit race, "Oh, man, this is going to totally suck. It'll be single file, the blue guys are gonna drill it from 10 miles to go, and I'm gonna suffer like mad."

I hated Waterford (is that the motorcycle track? it rained and it was slick - I went off road a couple times when I was by myself off the back), Midland (never got the hang of it). Muskegeon scared me with the downhill turn after someone just slid out at whatever insane speeds you midwesterners hit in corners.

Loved Lansing, the 8 turn finale that one year (Birmingham?) in the pouring rain. I forget the other courses although I'll remember if I look at the t-shirts I have.

Oh, I think it was Monroe - night race with two spotlights - one on the hairpin, one at the finish. 2/3 of the course in pitch black. Totally insane. I remember the overall leader broke his chain in the sprint, faceplanted. He won overall anyway, and he wasn't on the blue team (red white blue bike, maybe a 54, dual trispokes - he was a 2 the next year).

Was there another night race? Somehow I remember two.

I also remember hollering "RIGHT!" and everyone moving out of the way. And we'd line up at the front almost every race because I cut my teeth lining up for races like Harlem - the Michigan folk were too polite.

Heh I read my posts on it. That was a fun trip. Cat 3-4s:
https://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.co...1-getting.html
https://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.co...t-2-first.html
https://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.co...3-rest-of.html

And it was Birmingham. What a race.

All in the 3s or 3-4s, whatever category a 3 would do.
carpediemracing is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Reckoneer
Mountain Bike Racing
0
06-13-16 10:46 AM
Reckoneer
Mountain Bike Racing
0
05-07-16 02:20 PM
Martyk22
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing
20
03-15-12 03:32 PM
faire_du_velo
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
14
10-22-10 07:31 PM
gbot
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing
16
04-13-10 02:51 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.