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What to do with this race data?

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What to do with this race data?

Old 04-29-11, 08:22 AM
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What to do with this race data?

I hear that racing with a power meter provides some of the best data, but I don't know what to do with it here. The only thing I've gleaned so far is that my best 2', 5', and 10' were all at the end of the race.

Any advice?



PS - that nice little spike in my warm-up (in the little chart at the bottom of the image) was my best 1 min power. That's bad, right? haha
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Old 04-29-11, 09:09 AM
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Are race data valuable simply because you probably pushed yourself to the limits? And can they be analyzed to see how you could've done better?
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Old 04-29-11, 09:40 AM
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https://www.amazon.com/Training-Racin.../dp/1934030554
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Old 04-29-11, 10:50 AM
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I use it to answer questions I ask myself. I generally ask did I have the power when I needed it and if not, why not?
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Old 04-29-11, 11:57 AM
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Things I look for are:

- for a crit I usually want to the peak 5-mins to be the last 5-mins.. if not it means I did something too early and didn't have enough gas at the end.
- and if I'm contesting a final sprint, I also want the peak 5-secs to in that final sprint, or at least leading up to it (not in the first 10 mins of the race, which happens)
- if you cracked, what led up to that? (e.g. what do you need to train up to)
- sometimes a race that you do on a regular basis may feel harder some weeks - you can check the data and see if you actually worked harder, or if it just felt harder

I see you're on a mac but you might think of trying to run WKO in an emulator or whatever, it gives you the PMC (training stress modeling, etc) on top of the raw race data.
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Old 04-29-11, 01:01 PM
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There's also GoldenCheetah, opensource power analysis software that runs native on mac, linux and windows.
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Old 04-29-11, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mattm
Things I look for are:

- for a crit I usually want to the peak 5-mins to be the last 5-mins.. if not it means I did something too early and didn't have enough gas at the end.
- and if I'm contesting a final sprint, I also want the peak 5-secs to in that final sprint, or at least leading up to it (not in the first 10 mins of the race, which happens)
- if you cracked, what led up to that? (e.g. what do you need to train up to)
- sometimes a race that you do on a regular basis may feel harder some weeks - you can check the data and see if you actually worked harder, or if it just felt harder

I see you're on a mac but you might think of trying to run WKO in an emulator or whatever, it gives you the PMC (training stress modeling, etc) on top of the raw race data.

Good stuff, thanks for that. My peak 5 seconds came in the middle when a teammate and I made an attempt to go off the front. I was definitely less situationaly aware in this race because I was paying way more attention to where my teammates were rather than where I should be. We were trying to make a coordinated effort to shake up the race a bit, but we forgot one thing: Who's the leader?

We're a long way off from team assignments and all that jazz, but we're trying to make it happen. This was also my first race with a PT, so I'm guessing trends will show up as I do more races.
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Old 04-29-11, 07:01 PM
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You can use quadrant analysis to work out the cadence/power demands for a given race, and whether you are training accordingly. For instance in a crit you might be spending a lot of time in the lower right quadrant (easy spinning), with short bursts to the top right quadrant (accelerating out of corners). If you're targeting crits, then your training should mimic those demands.
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Old 04-29-11, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MontyCrisco
You can use quadrant analysis to work out the cadence/power demands for a given race, and whether you are training accordingly. For instance in a crit you might be spending a lot of time in the lower right quadrant (easy spinning), with short bursts to the top right quadrant (accelerating out of corners). If you're targeting crits, then your training should mimic those demands.

That quadrant analysis is crazy. I just barely scratched the surface of what Golden Cheetah can do. Next on the list of things from amazon is definitely Training and Racing with Power
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Old 04-29-11, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MontyCrisco
You can use quadrant analysis to work out the cadence/power demands for a given race, and whether you are training accordingly. For instance in a crit you might be spending a lot of time in the lower right quadrant (easy spinning), with short bursts to the top right quadrant (accelerating out of corners). If you're targeting crits, then your training should mimic those demands.
I'm reading through the new to training with power questions/comments thread but I have come across much quadrant stuff yet. Question: what if the scatterplot looks like a shotgun blast? My "race" interval is all over the place. Is that "bad"? Or just the nature of the criterium?
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Old 04-29-11, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by HMF
I hear that racing with a power meter provides some of the best data, but I don't know what to do with it here. The only thing I've gleaned so far is that my best 2', 5', and 10' were all at the end of the race.
Driveway?

I don't agree about racing providing the best data, unless you under train. Controlled testing should provide the best numbers, in the vast majority of race situations the goal is to do less rather than more; the exception being "race ending" efforts (sprint, kilo, OTF solo) or bridging/clawing back on efforts.

All data is comparative. I look at all hard efforts to gauge improvements (or not) to evaluate training past and forward, and current fitness. If you haven't done a recent test in one of the "buckets" and you hit a new best, then it's an indicator that you should increase CP value gaps for future training.

The data can also indicates gaps that might need to be addressed.

Context is everything.
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Old 04-30-11, 08:33 AM
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Re: spike at the beginning - my best race day power was three jumps I did before the Harlem Crit. I don't think I've gotten within 200w of those numbers in any race, and my peak is usually 300-400w lower than those jumps. They were only 100w lower than my record jumps.

I did okay in the race, had to sit up on the second last straight (no helmet cam), but I can't help but think I left a critical jump behind when I warmed up.

As far as analysis, knowing the numbers for those various times (peak, 5 or 10s, min, 2 min, etc) would help figure stuff out, as would the course.
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Old 04-30-11, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Racer Ex
Driveway?

Yes Driveway.

I've only had this thing for a week now and it's... amazing. I was on a team ride today and I was the only guy who's ever owned a PT, and we had a nice flat stretch of road. I got into a nice tight tuck and towed the team along at ludicrous speed, never going over into anaerobic zones.

And the data? amazing. I'm using golden cheetah and I feel like half the mystery has just been decoded. I can now SEE how hard I went on a training day, I can track my stress balance, I can see where I need to improve. My god, it's like cheating.

For now I guess I'll just keep recording data, but this is an amazing, amazing tool.
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Old 05-01-11, 11:56 AM
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I tend to find race day data useless...Racing has too many variables, too many bouts of tactics or mischief; that aside, as a rule, my last 5' min power is never my peak...I'm sitting in, surfing wheels, saving it for a 30" sprint.

Data, for me, is exclusively a training tool. Race data only functions for pacing or analyzing tactics.
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Old 05-01-11, 12:28 PM
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use it to find out what your road to recovery will be. Since you can't control your output unless you are significantly stronger than everyone else and can solo the whole race.
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Old 05-02-11, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by HMF
I'm reading through the new to training with power questions/comments thread but I have come across much quadrant stuff yet. Question: what if the scatterplot looks like a shotgun blast? My "race" interval is all over the place. Is that "bad"? Or just the nature of the criterium?
You might try analyzing just one lap, which gives a slightly clearer picture. Here's my whole race from Sunday:
https://imgur.com/6BLpa.png

What a mess.

Now here's just the last lap (in Golden Cheetah choose the lap you want, then unclick "frame intervals" to get this)
https://imgur.com/p9Eff.png


You can tell a bit more because there's less data to look at. The vertical line is 90 RPM which is just a touch above my best 20m TT cadence. So I guess my story is that in a race situation I'm choosing what appears to be the right power-for-cadence for the most part, but maybe should spend more time coasting rather than dwelling in the bottom right quadrant (roughly: higher cadence, lower power). More importantly if I want to improve at this kind of race I should do workouts where my intervals take on a similar distribution (say, microbursts).
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