cyclisteaux

ok we all know that zipp 404s are faster, but by how much? 1-2 mph faster than training wheels (easton vistas or similar)?

i never train with zipps but have a few training buddies that do. if i'm always on my training wheels and they're on their race wheels, clearly, they have the advantage right? training rides are not a competition, but my buddies ride it like it is! ;-)

Brian Ratliff

When training, you are out for the biggest workout, are you not? Ride your training wheels when you train. Laugh at all those who think they gain something by training on their race wheels.

The only exception to this is if you don't race enough to know how your race wheels handle on your bike. If you have deep section race wheels, you should probably train with them from time to time, whether your training is a training race or a training ride. They likely handle a bit differently in the wind, and their braking characteristics are likely different as well.

jsutkeepspining

+100 i generally take my race wheels out the day before a race just to remind myself how they handle.

ericm979

Race wheels are less sturdy than training wheels. On a training ride being 1 second slower on the climb up Gobbler's Knob is no big deal, but having to call the wife for a rescue when your over-used race wheel self-destructs and losing out on the rest of the ride is.

If you're riding your training rides like a competition the using the training wheels just means you'll have to work slightly harder. "winning" the training ride isn't important other than as a sign of good fitness. Or slow training partners.

waterrockets 

I always train on my race wheels

mollusk

I have some deep section Edge (now Enve) carbon tubulars as my race wheels. On rare occasions I'll take them out for TT training if I'm expecting strong crosswinds that day. I can't duplicate that with my other wheels. I never take them out for group rides.

My training wheels are my back-up race wheels. For years I had been training on FSA RD-400's that I got on an Ebay bike, but I hit a pothole really hard on a downhill and cracked the rim on the rear wheel. After that I trained on some 10 year old Bonty Race Lites that I got on another Ebay bike but these wheels are just about cooked. I got them used and I've put at least 40K miles on them myself. Probably close to 50K. I'm beginning to not trust the thickness of the braking surface. Now I'm training on Mavic K Elites. I'd race on them, but I'd prefer my other race wheels.

The plan is to buy some Ultegra/Open Pro's in the near future for winter base, rain rides, and NASTY road surface rides. Some of my team mates just love riding on non-paved roads.

pjcampbell

same here, i only have 1 set of wheels and they are what i would say are considered race wheels although heavy and clinchers.

BikeNube

yea dude, all the pros train on 404s and race on open pros, duh.

bostongarden

I don't know if my training wheels are racing wheels or if my racing wheels are training wheels. I train and race on the same wheels, Easton EC70 SLs -- they are 38mm. I have a pair of Ksyrium SLs, which came with my bike, for backup. I prefer the Easton wheels. They feel good in both training and racing.

I have been thinking about getting used Zipp 404 clinchers. If they rolled as durably as some reviews say they do, then, I imagine that I would use them for training. Why not?

If I used tubulars for racing, then I suspect I would only use them for racing.

AzTallRider

I tried the 404 tubies I just got for the first time last evening. Winds gusting over 20mph was a good test, and there were no real issues in the crosswind sections, but the handling is certainly different enough to warrant an occasional training ride on them. I did some AE intervals on them this morning, then took them off to await the next race. I want to (a) keep them fresh, and (b) not have to replace an expensive tire because of road trash on a training ride. I'm tempted to give them a try, once, on a group hammerfest... just to see what they are like in the pacelines.

chicagogal

I train on my "race wheels" one night/week on a race-paced training ride. I need all the advantage I can get on that ride, plus it gives me an opportunity to, like others have said, just get comfortable with how the race wheels feel.

jwible

I train on my Kinlin PT wheels from Psimet right now. My Quarq died a horrible death. When I get its warranty replacement back I'll be on my Ksyrium Elites for training. I use my Psimet carbon 50 / Alchemy wheels for racing, but I have trained on them plenty in the past.

GirlAnachronism

Same here. I just found some locally for $900. I'm seriously considering picking them up. Today.

Grumpy McTrumpy

I don't train on 404s, but they are reasonably strong.

That said, I have had two of them crushed in crashes now. I don't buy them new.

mattm

Me too.

Open Pros ftw!

echappist

eff open pros, Kinlin XR300 ftw

mattm

What's the difference?

kleinboogie

+1. I generally train on my 404 alums but will bring out the tubular wheels I plan on racing with because I feel better knowing they hold air and can handle corners. GL

waterrockets 

Similar weight, XR-300s cost a bit less and are stronger. Probably slightly more aero with the 30mm depth.

I liked my Open Pros, but they weren't very durable, and they're a little expensive.

echappist

you can also get them in different colors, which is important when the only colors on your bike is black and grey

Hermes

I have looked at data on wheel performance and it seems that deep section wheels save from 5 to 10 watts depending on wind angle and speed. In disturbed air (in the pack), the benefit is less certain. Off the front or in a breakaway, there is an advantage. So do your friends have an advantage, probably but it is small unless you are time trialing. Having said that, I will take any watts I can get.

Now the real reason to ride race wheels is that it is fun. I love to ride my Easton EC 90s 58 mm carbon tubies on the road. I always get compliments on how nice they look and they corner and feel great. For training at the track, I ride my Zipp Disc and trispoke at LA Velodrome and deep section wheels at Hellyer in San Jose. Riding the disc / trispoke at LAV on the wooden indoor track is pure pleasure.

However, riding carbon tubies on the road are a PITA if I flat and I do not like them in the mountains due to braking concerns. So typically, I train on my Williams System 30s and I will race on them from time to time. I have found in practice, that the better wheels, in group situations, do not make much difference. If I do well it is because I am handling the surges and accelerations and that is about producing hundreds of watts not a few.

grwoolf

I got some 404 clinchers a while back and use them in fast group rides. I spend way more time in the wind and trying to bridge during group rides vs. crit racing, so I think I see more benefits with that kind of riding anyway. I want that extra 10 watts (or whatever) when I'm about to blow up. Also, I think it's far less likely to destroy a wheel during a group ride.

I'll also ride them sometimes during solo rides when I'm too lazy to switch out wheels, but I do feel like a dork (especially on a 15mph recovery ride). I know it's pointless to ride them solo from a training benefit standpoint, but they can add a little fun factor and motivation when doing threshold/TT intervals (love the sound).

gsteinb

fyi zipp will rebuild them for $300 (or thereabouts). My buddy just sent two in, and I've repaired two that way as well.

Grumpy McTrumpy

they only do that if you buy them new, and from an official dealer.

the last one I wrecked cost me 300 for the wheel so I'm still ahead of the game by a good margin.

jfmckenna

I do the exact same thing for all the same reasons, mostly to get a feel for them. If I am racing on the weekend then I use my racing set up on my Wednesday Worlds training ride.