Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

5 cents please (**possible spoilers**)

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

5 cents please (**possible spoilers**)

Old 08-24-11, 11:05 AM
  #4101  
shovelhd
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
Any one have a handle in the chris tather race schedule this weekend? Sounds line a good plan b
echappist, got it?
shovelhd is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 11:06 AM
  #4102  
shovelhd
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by echappist View Post

Whatever makes you look like homer simpson, obviously
I'm sure that's been done before.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 11:21 AM
  #4103  
mollusk
Elite Fred
 
mollusk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edge City
Posts: 10,893

Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
I'm sure that's been done before.
How about this?

mollusk is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 11:21 AM
  #4104  
Nate552
Senior Member
 
Nate552's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: TX
Posts: 2,620

Bikes: Orbea Orca Trek 5500 Trek Equinox

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kensuf View Post
Huh. I felt worse. My power faded on the 2nd and I nearly puked. I had to sit under the shade of a tree after for about 5 minutes to cool off, and I nearly called for a ride.

Bad juju all around.

A cool shower, and a cold smoothie later and I feel a lot better. But when I looked up the physics departments weather station hour by hour graph of the humidity, I vowed never to do that stupid stuff again.
I feel your pain. I have a 12.5 mile TT to do tomorrow at 6 pm. Predicted temp is 102 with a HI of 107. Last time I did this TT in the same kind of heat my power was down 9%.
Nate552 is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 11:22 AM
  #4105  
agoodale
Senior Member
 
agoodale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Murrieta, CA
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
It depends which sport and at what level. My daughter played AAU basketball for a season. I got to see the soft white underbelly of the beast. The bottom line is, the vast majority of kids getting college basketball scholarships play AAU ball. Tournaments are showcases for college coaches. Many of them are promoted listing the big name colleges scheduled to attend. AAU is a pay-to-play league. To be fair, the good teams have the best players and coaches, so there is a lot of value for your kid to play in this league whether they're recruiting material or not, but on the whole, it's a racket.
When it comes to college recruiting there is a game that has to be played. I'm ok with that. What I wonder is how many kids that are getting recruited have actually been playing since there were 5/6?
agoodale is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 11:28 AM
  #4106  
kensuf
My idea of fun
 
kensuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 9,846

Bikes: '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '02 Kona Lavadome, '07 Giant TCR Advanced, '07 Karate Monkey

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Nate552 View Post
I feel your pain. I have a 12.5 mile TT to do tomorrow at 6 pm. Predicted temp is 102 with a HI of 107. Last time I did this TT in the same kind of heat my power was down 9%.
sounds about right. I'm still a little sick.
kensuf is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 11:33 AM
  #4107  
shovelhd
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by agoodale View Post
When it comes to college recruiting there is a game that has to be played. I'm ok with that. What I wonder is how many kids that are getting recruited have actually been playing since there were 5/6?

In my experience, most.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 11:38 AM
  #4108  
ridethecliche
Village Idiot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bahstaaaaan
Posts: 20,250
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by agoodale View Post
Has anyone ever done a study to see if all these "travel teams / all stars / little league world series " actually benefit the kids in any way? Other than helping your kid get onto the high school team do these kids go on to be recruited at a higher rate than kids who didn't participate in these teams? Do more of these kids make it to major league sports? How many even continue to play after high school?
I'm pretty sure that studies have shown that kids now-a-days suffer from low self esteem and confidence issues mostly because they've been 'winners' (more like weeners) all their life through these 'sports'.

If you're always used to winning, then the real world will chew you up and spit you the hell out.
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 11:44 AM
  #4109  
agoodale
Senior Member
 
agoodale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Murrieta, CA
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
In my experience, most.
interesting. Do you think the extra years playing is necessary or would those same physically gifted kids be just as valuable to colleges if they had started playing in middle school?
agoodale is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 11:56 AM
  #4110  
ridethecliche
Village Idiot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bahstaaaaan
Posts: 20,250
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by agoodale View Post
interesting. Do you think the extra years playing is necessary or would those same physically gifted kids be just as valuable to colleges if they had started playing in middle school?
Depends on the ability and how good kids are at being coached. Having played in the right leagues for a longer period of time means that the kids are more 'coachable' and are probably better at playing the game.

I bet a bunch of kids are walk ons that just amaze people in middle school.
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 12:15 PM
  #4111  
shovelhd
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by agoodale View Post
interesting. Do you think the extra years playing is necessary or would those same physically gifted kids be just as valuable to colleges if they had started playing in middle school?
I can only tell you what I've seen in basketball, not soccer or any other sport. Sure, there are kids with the right body structure, intelligence, and the desire to learn that can become high level players in a short time. Basketball, with its premium on height, gets a lot of them. But it also puts a lot of value on court smarts, which is not impossible to learn in a short time, but years of experience and a variety of coaching methodologies can separate the good from the great players. One thing I've seen in the players that have been playing since they were very young is that there is a crossroads at age 13 or 14. That is when they're good enough to be stars, they know the game well, they win a lot, and they question themselves whether they want to continue. Telling them how great they are doesn't cut it anymore. A lot of them drop out of the sport at that age. The ones that continue tend to have one of three traits - a) parents that push them (all too common), b) that hunger, desire and love for the sport since they started playing it (very rare), or c) they've looked in the mirror after questioning themselves and decided to keep going (happens more often than not).
shovelhd is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 12:16 PM
  #4112  
shovelhd
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
Having played in the right leagues for a longer period of time means that the kids are more 'coachable' and are probably better at playing the game.
Yes and no. A lot of the egomaniacs aren't coachable by anyone. Why do you think Bobby Knight throws chairs.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 12:23 PM
  #4113  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 20,593

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 18 Posts
I want this coach.....again.....

__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 12:23 PM
  #4114  
jwible
Draught
 
jwible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4,051

Bikes: N-1 where N = number needed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
This looks like fun. The last "road race" of the season. What to wear? Decisions, decisions.
I was born for that race. I think I could go into negative time.
jwible is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 12:24 PM
  #4115  
shovelhd
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You had long hair.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 12:24 PM
  #4116  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 20,593

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
Yes and no. A lot of the egomaniacs aren't coachable by anyone. Why do you think Bobby Knight throws chairs.
Interesting that you use that reference. I was being coached by these guys in Bloomington at the exact same time that Coach Knight was throwing chairs......maybe I'm just nostalgic.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 12:28 PM
  #4117  
shovelhd
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Interesting that you use that reference. I was being coached by these guys in Bloomington at the exact same time that Coach Knight was throwing chairs......maybe I'm just nostalgic.
John Wooden
Bobby Knight
everybody else

But we digress.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 12:32 PM
  #4118  
big john
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 12,098
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
John Wooden
Bobby Knight
everybody else

But we digress.
In his book, Kareem Abdul Jabbar said when Coach Wooden said "Gracious sakes alive" it struck more fear into the hearts of the players than any tirade of oscenities from any other coach.
big john is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 01:01 PM
  #4119  
miwoodar
Fast for a sloth
 
miwoodar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Fort Collins
Posts: 1,134

Bikes: Some

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011...and-genes.html
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011...e-secrets.html



A lot of college basketball coaches behaved pretty poorly in Knight's big days but failed to get the recognition that he did.
miwoodar is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 01:03 PM
  #4120  
Enthalpic
Killing Rabbits
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,432
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
I'm pretty sure that studies have shown...
That is painful to read. If you don't know what you're writing about leave "studies" out of it. A guy I know had a table similar to this posted in his office, always thought it was funny.

Interpreting Statements in Scientific Papers - What Common Research Phrases Really Mean
By Anne Marie Helmenstine, Ph.D.

"It can be shown"

Somebody said they did this, but I can't duplicate their results. I can't even find the reference, or else I would have cited that instead.

"It has long been known"

I don't know the original reference.

"A trend is evident"

Okay, a trend does seem apparent to me, but no statistical analysis in the world will support it.

"Of great theoretical and practical importance"

Means it is interesting to me or else I want it to be interesting to somebody with money so they will fund my research.

"Although there are no definite answers to these questions..."

My experiment failed, but I still want to get published.

"Three samples were selected for detailed study"

Because the other ones sucked!

"Typical results are shown"

Either means the only results are shown or the best results are shown.

"These results will be described in a subsequent report"

Could mean: "I had to hurry and get this paper published" or "My sabbatical is over and it's someone else's job to figure out the data."

"The most reliable results are those obtained by Smith."

Smith is or was my graduate research assistant.

"It is believed that..."

I think this (and either no one agrees with me or else I didn't consult anyone).

"It is generally believed that"

I think this and at least one other person agrees with me.

"Additional work will be required to elucidate the mechanism"

I don't have a clue what is going on and I'm not going to be the one to figure it out.

"Correct within an order of magnitude"

So very, very wrong.

"It is hoped that this study will stimulate further investigation"

If I cared about further investigation, I'd tell you about my future plans. You can do the research. You won't get any answers either.

"Thanks are due to Joe Shmoe for assistance with the experiment and to Sam Smith for his help in preparing this paper"

Shmoe did the work. Smith wrote the paper. My lab hosted the experiment, so I get all of the credit and any awards that might be given.

"A careful analysis of obtainable data"

I analyzed what data I could, which wasn't much because the other data was lost (chemical spill, computer error, equipment malfunction, etc.).
Enthalpic is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 01:12 PM
  #4121  
rankin116
Senior Member
 
rankin116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ChapelBorro NC
Posts: 4,126
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
Depends on the ability and how good kids are at being coached. Having played in the right leagues for a longer period of time means that the kids are more 'coachable' and are probably better at playing the game.

I bet a bunch of kids are walk ons that just amaze people in middle school.
Interesting. What sports do your kids play?
rankin116 is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 01:17 PM
  #4122  
ridethecliche
Village Idiot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bahstaaaaan
Posts: 20,250
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I meant that I've seen a study from which I am drawing my conclusion, but I'm not going to dig for it because I'm at work.

But hey:

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/01/11/s...h-self-esteem/

News clip based on a study. I haven't bothered to look at this specific study, but I've read stuff like this in various business journals and news articles that link to others as well.

Seriously, I can dig up journals too, but I didn't see the need in this case.
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 01:18 PM
  #4123  
rankin116
Senior Member
 
rankin116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ChapelBorro NC
Posts: 4,126
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Interesting that you use that reference. I was being coached by these guys in Bloomington at the exact same time that Coach Knight was throwing chairs......maybe I'm just nostalgic.
I had a coach in high school baseball who would swear more than any person I have ever known. Only at his players though. Smoked a pack of non-filter camels a day as well. All his players loved him.

My fondest memory is from a game in 8th grade. He brought me in in relief, 2 runners on. I walk 2 in a row, allowing the tying run to score. Could not find the strike zone. He walks out to remove me, and as he's crossing the third base line, he starts to say LOUDLY "Alan you little mother flucking c*ck sucker!"

No one took what he said personally though, that's just how he spoke. He loved his players.
rankin116 is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 01:18 PM
  #4124  
ridethecliche
Village Idiot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bahstaaaaan
Posts: 20,250
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rankin116 View Post
Interesting. What sports do your kids play?
I played the sims when I was 15 you know.

I base all my real world knowledge on that.

Basing my observations on friends that I've grown up with and athletes I've known in school and their own personal experiences.
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 08-24-11, 01:26 PM
  #4125  
Apus^2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Looking for my right leg muscles.
Posts: 1,202

Bikes: 2000 Cannondale CAAD3 Triple 105/Ultegra

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
I'm pretty sure that studies have shown that kids now-a-days suffer from low self esteem and confidence issues mostly because they've been 'winners' (more like weeners) all their life through these 'sports'.

If you're always used to winning, then the real world will chew you up and spit you the hell out.

Something like this is discussed in Nurture Shock by Po Bronson and Ashley Merryman (http://www.nurtureshock.com/). Basically when I was growing up it was all about the ego--praise, praise, praise for being smart, smart, smart. They studied two groups of kids--ones that were told "You are so smart" vs ones that were told "You must have really worked hard." What they found was that kids that were constantly told they were smart were less likely to tackle hard problems--if they didn't immediately grasp the concept they thought they weren't good at it and didn't want to try it any more. Kids that were praised for their ability to work hard on a problem were more likely to take the time and try to work through a harder problem--they tried harder and didn't give up.

Freakonomics also discusses some of this--why children of athletes often grow up to be athletes...I need to read that book.

Last edited by Apus^2; 08-24-11 at 01:38 PM.
Apus^2 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.