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A Decrease In Power - What's Happening?

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A Decrease In Power - What's Happening?

Old 06-28-11, 09:17 PM
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wacomme
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A Decrease In Power - What's Happening?

Three weeks ago I was preparing for a 40K TT. My training was going well. I held 260W for 45 minutes on TT bars the Wednesday before the Saturday race. I tapered well during the week. Then on race day everything fell apart. I might have been stung by a wasp 30" before the start of the race (not sure). I was 5 minutes late to the start. The first five minutes were fine, but then I lost power and developed hives. I thought of quitting, but struggled to the end with a high heart rate. My overall wattage was 224W. I felt horrible.

I then spent the following week in Dallas, TX on a business trip (two hour-long rides on an exercise bike in a hot gym without a fan).

Upon my return I've tried to ride hard, but I drop power significantly after a 5 minute effort. I can ride at 330W for 5 minutes, but after that my power goes to around 240W. I rode a group practice ride for an upcoming hill climb last Wednesday and dropped power after 7 minutes (350+W to less than 220W). During the same course race last Saturday (a short 20 miler with a steep climb) my power average less than 200W (less than my 5 hour endurance rides); it was a hot day - 95 degrees. My HR during the race was maxed (175BPM). 10 minutes after the race I had three 30" attacks of not being able to breathe (first time asthma-like attacks). Since the race I've been riding on and off days. I tried a 20' interval today and stopped at 14' due to lack of sustained power. I then rode another 20' interval not looking at my bike computer and only recorded 250W (I should record 275W for a 265W FTP - a figure I've confirmed numerous times).

What's happening? My wife suspects I have Societal Anxiety Disorder (SAD), saying I should stop racing and just enjoy riding my bike (this is my first season of racing in 25 years). I'm age 49. Perhaps SAD has something to do with my lack of racing performance, but even during training rides I can't seem to muster much power after 5 minutes, whereas during the months of April and May I regularly rode 3 x 20' interval sets at well over 260W.

Tomorrow I'm heading out for a 4 hour endurance ride by myself simply because I can do it. Too bad. I have the Mt. Evans Hill Climb in a little over three weeks. I need long, sustained power (something I excelled at [relatively] three weeks ago).

So what's happening? I'm perplexed.

Last edited by wacomme; 06-28-11 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 06-28-11, 09:34 PM
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Sorry you are experiencing this situation.

Wikipedias says: "Social anxiety disorder (SAD or SAnD) (DSM-IV 300.23) is an anxiety disorder characterized by intense fear in social situations[1] causing considerable distress and impaired ability to function in at least some parts of daily life." (lead sentence)

I don't mean for this to be cheeky, but is a time trial a particularly social event? Do you experience similar physical reactions in other situations (non-athletic)? I mean, you were on a business trip, maybe on a plane, certainly in a hotel.

In the past, have you been just fine with other similar athletic performances? Maybe you're over-trained or fatigued? Have you had a physical lately? Could a stress test be in order?

Hope you can figure this out.
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Old 06-28-11, 09:49 PM
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Social Anxiety Disorder is a trendy diagnosis lately. Unless you are seeing it in other aspects of your life, its unlikely to be a problem for cycling. Especially since a race is not the sort of social situation where it'd be a problem- the social interactions are limited and scripted compared to say a dinner party. And no one really cares what you do as long as you don't crash them. There's plenty of other things to be anxious about in a race, but that's pre-race butterflies which is not yet a disorder.

I think that over-reaching, allergies or heat-related problems (or some combination) is more probable.
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Old 06-28-11, 10:10 PM
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you had a crappy TT because you were stung by a bee and disorganized.

business trips suck the life out of all of us; a 3 day trips is more taxing than a 3 day stage race, IMO.

if your wife is not board certified to make that diagnosis, ignore her.

take a recovery week.
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Old 06-28-11, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wacomme View Post
Three weeks ago I was preparing for a 40K TT. My training was going well. I held 260W for 45 minutes on TT bars the Wednesday before the Saturday race. I tapered well during the week. Then on race day everything fell apart. I might have been stung by a wasp 30" before the start of the race (not sure). I was 5 minutes late to the start. The first five minutes were fine, but then I lost power and developed hives. I thought of quitting, but struggled to the end with a high heart rate. My overall wattage was 224W. I felt horrible.

I then spent the following week in Dallas, TX on a business trip (two hour-long rides on an exercise bike in a hot gym without a fan).

Upon my return I've tried to ride hard, but I drop power significantly after a 5 minute effort. I can ride at 330W for 5 minutes, but after that my power goes to around 240W. I rode a group practice ride for an upcoming hill climb last Wednesday and dropped power after 7 minutes (350+W to less than 220W). During the same course race last Saturday (a short 20 miler with a steep climb) my power average less than 200W (less than my 5 hour endurance rides); it was a hot day - 95 degrees. My HR during the race was maxed (175BPM). 10 minutes after the race I had three 30" attacks of not being able to breathe (first time asthma-like attacks). Since the race I've been riding on and off days. I tried a 20' interval today and stopped at 14' due to lack of sustained power. I then rode another 20' interval not looking at my bike computer and only recorded 250W (I should record 275W for a 265W FTP - a figure I've confirmed numerous times).

What's happening? My wife suspects I have Societal Anxiety Disorder (SAD), saying I should stop racing and just enjoy riding my bike (this is my first season of racing in 25 years). I'm age 49. Perhaps SAD has something to do with my lack of racing performance, but even during training rides I can't seem to muster much power after 5 minutes, whereas during the months of April and May I regularly rode 3 x 20' interval sets at well over 260W.

Tomorrow I'm heading out for a 4 hour endurance ride by myself simply because I can do it. Too bad. I have the Mt. Evans Hill Climb in a little over three weeks. I need long, sustained power (something I excelled at [relatively] three weeks ago).

So what's happening? I'm perplexed.
Those powers are way above your FTP; it's not surprising that you can only hold them for the length of a VO2max interval.
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Old 06-29-11, 03:14 AM
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If you think it's something physical, go see a doctor. If you think it's something mental, ask the doctor when you see them.
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Old 06-29-11, 04:55 AM
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Go ride your bike to enjoy it without a powermeter for a few days then come back to it.

If nothing else, it sounds like burnout.
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Old 06-29-11, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Enthalpic View Post
Those powers are way above your FTP; it's not surprising that you can only hold them for the length of a VO2max interval.
+1. Also you're likely tired as a 40k TT even not at your full power will take a lot out of you. Take a recovery week as Creaky suggested and then see where you stand after some rest and recovery.
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Old 06-29-11, 06:22 AM
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I'm a little older than you (racing age 54) and I'm also in my first year back from racing in more than 25 years. I think Creakyknees nailed what happened during and after your TT. Those are the specifics. I'd like to share some generalities.

This sport is hard. Really ************** hard. I don't know what level you raced at in the past, but I was an elite rider. The most important thing you can do for yourself is set realistic expectations. Your first year back may not match your best memories of long ago. Your ability to pace yourself, read activity in races, know what you have left in the tank, etc. is going to be rough compared to the past. You need to focus on honing those skills. Focusing on power is not the way to do it. Power management is a great resource that we did not have back then, but it can be overemphasized to the point where you become a slave to your power meter. Don't do that. Back then, we trained and raced by RPE. There's nothing inherently wrong with training by RPE once you reach a good level of fitness. Listen to your body. Your past experience has taught you to suffer, but your mental metrics may still be stuck in the past. You're older now. It's a new season. You have the advantage of past knowledge but almost everyone around you has a few recent seasons in their legs. As the season goes on and you get faster and recover more easily, your time-off deficit will start to shrink. It is that slow build, that increasing capability, that motivates me, not numbers on a power meter.

Best of luck to you. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat.
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Old 06-29-11, 06:24 AM
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Listen to these guys...

A 40k TT, especially when you are returning to racing is pretty hard on the body. As we get older the time to recover from things like this takes longer then we'd like. The worst thing you can do is continue to push it. All you do is dig a deeper hole...
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Old 06-29-11, 06:34 AM
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age
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Old 06-29-11, 07:36 AM
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I'm 48 and it seems that I always practice better than I race. I don't really understand it, but sometimes it seems like I'm flying at the end of 3 hard weeks and then it all falls apart when I taper. Of course, starting off a touch high in an ITT is a recipe for later collapse, another error I know all to well.

As a separate thought, if you're averaging out around 240-250, then I would start your FTP intervals at 240 for the first half and then let that number float up slowly to find your level again. I've wasted plenty of time flogging myself to replicate a wattage number that just wasn't working.
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Old 06-29-11, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by wacomme View Post
...I then spent the following week in Dallas, TX on a business trip (two hour-long rides on an exercise bike in a hot gym without a fan)...
If this is true (and not just hyperbole) then you were likely cooked when you came home. Add to that the extraordinarily negative tone recounting your recent training, and I'd say you need some time off the bike (not long, maybe just a few days) and then to "bring back that lovin' feelin'". In other words, ride your bike for fun for a while.

"Losing" 10% of your FTP ride-to-ride isn't all that uncommon really. FTP isn't a number you can punch into your computer and dial up. Its hugely dependent on fitness, fatigue, environment, and most importantly, motivation.
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Old 06-29-11, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by SpongeDad View Post
I'm 48 and it seems that I always practice better than I race. I don't really understand it, but sometimes it seems like I'm flying at the end of 3 hard weeks and then it all falls apart when I taper. Of course, starting off a touch high in an ITT is a recipe for later collapse, another error I know all to well.
This is something I've been working with my clients on. Discerning the real "need" for tapering and resting. Most people, in my opinion, "taper" way too much for their level of fitness. My CTL is regularly in the 90s and I "taper" about 3 days for the hardest races of the year and rarely, if ever, take a rest week. I think a lot of people who have read Friel's book (not necessarily you), take it too literally. I think Hunter Allen says if your CTL is below 50, you really don't even need to taper at all.

Obviously this is an individual thing. If I was doing 20 hours a week, I'd make vastly different choices.
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Old 06-29-11, 07:49 AM
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I have had times like this. Sometimes it's a combination of dehydration and slight constipation (road trips have that effect sometimes) where my weight is normal but my hydration level is lower than it should be. The symptoms for me are increased pain in the major muscle groups and elevated heartrate/power.

I am not saying you have this. I am simply adding another in the long list of possible explanations that are far far far far more likely than social anxiety disorder, which sounds like, even if it's true, it has nothing whatsoever to do with this specific problem.

Other times it's mental burnout. I have had that happen a few times too. Time trials are especially difficult when you don't really have the mental drive to keep pushing to the limit.
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Old 06-29-11, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by currand View Post
This is something I've been working with my clients on. Discerning the real "need" for tapering and resting. Most people, in my opinion, "taper" way too much for their level of fitness. My CTL is regularly in the 90s and I "taper" about 3 days for the hardest races of the year and rarely, if ever, take a rest week. I think a lot of people who have read Friel's book (not necessarily you), take it too literally. I think Hunter Allen says if your CTL is below 50, you really don't even need to taper at all.

Obviously this is an individual thing. If I was doing 20 hours a week, I'd make vastly different choices.
That's what my wife's coach has done...

She races her 'A' races tomorrow and this weekend...

She was doing 5min mini TT's (basically VO2max intervals) on Saturday, then a 3hr endurance ride Sunday...She was off Monday, easy 2 hrs yesterday and 45mins today...TT on Thursday...

We know a number of other riders who started tapering before this past weekend...

I find hit my PB numbers when I'm in the tail end of my blocks...When I'm feeling the most fatigued, not after a rest week....
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Old 06-29-11, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rbart4506 View Post
That's what my wife's coach has done...

She races her 'A' races tomorrow and this weekend...

She was doing 5min mini TT's (basically VO2max intervals) on Saturday, then a 3hr endurance ride Sunday...She was off Monday, easy 2 hrs yesterday and 45mins today...TT on Thursday...

We know a number of other riders who started tapering before this past weekend...

I find hit my PB numbers when I'm in the tail end of my blocks...When I'm feeling the most fatigued, not after a rest week....
I'm the same way, but it's taken some experimentation to figure that out. I have raced like absolute and total garbage after rest weeks this year. So, we've started doing things a little differently, and I had my best race of the season last week after a few hard weeks in a row, and race three of the weekend was my best of the three. I'm still taking rest weeks, but we're scheduling them before races I don't care about, and going into races I do care about a little bit tired, since that's when I perform best.

If what is "supposed" to work isn't working it might be time to try something else.
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Old 06-30-11, 01:28 PM
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Without seeing your prior training schedule it's pretty hard to even venture a guess. First thing I'd be looking at if you're losing power is things like resting heart rate and sleep patterns, to get a handle on your fatigue level. But really your prior FTP based on what you've written here would be around 250-ish, so rolling 330w for a while then dropping to <240 doesn't sound unreasonable. Nor does losing wattage on a hot day.

And your current training regimen wouldn't be anything I'd suggest.

Beware the vicious cycle...fatigued guys think because they aren't riding well they need to train harder. They get worse then train even harder. The hole you dig doing this has an exponential depth for recovery time.
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Old 06-30-11, 03:34 PM
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Actually, wacomme, your numbers are pretty good. What is your height and weight? What is your previous maximum time at 330w or 350w? If your FTP is 260, do you really think you can do 10 minutes at 350? Just keep it below 300 on Mt Evans and you will do fine.
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Old 06-30-11, 06:44 PM
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Thank you for your replies. I think the problem is a combination of several things - race anxiety, over-training, allergic reaction during race, business trip to hot Texas and then returning to hot Colorado (it had been unusually cool all spring), and perhaps too much tapering the last week before the race. I'm not mentally there - a mental crash.

My CTL was 90 a week prior to the TT. It fell to 85 the day before the TT. My TSB was zero the day of the TT. Following my week-long trip to Dallas, my CTL fell to 80. It's since climbed to 85.

I'm trying to ride just for fun and not looking critically at my numbers. I'm riding hills and mountains since my next race in three weeks is a hill climb, but I'm not riding interval sets. I've been riding on/off days the past week. I feel my motivation is returning. Perhaps in another week I'll be able to really hammer and train hard.
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Old 06-30-11, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by wacomme View Post
My CTL was 90 a week prior to the TT. It fell to 85 the day before the TT. My TSB was zero the day of the TT. Following my week-long trip to Dallas, my CTL fell to 80. It's since climbed to 85. Perhaps in another week I'll be able to really hammer and train hard.
For me CTL is both the actual number, and how long I've been holding it. I seldom see much above 90, but I'll hold high 80's for several months when I'm going well.
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Old 07-01-11, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by wacomme View Post
My CTL was 90 a week prior to the TT. It fell to 85 the day before the TT. My TSB was zero the day of the TT. Following my week-long trip to Dallas, my CTL fell to 80. It's since climbed to 85.
I vote stale legs. Or, more scientifically (sort of) the fact that with even a slight break from regular training you can see significant changes in fitness. Especially in the anaerobic efforts. It would take me easily 2 weeks to come back from 1 week of riding in a hotel gym. During those two weeks I wouldn't expect to be within 10% of where I was previously.

Moral to the story, be as consistent as you can and when you can't, be realistic.
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Old 07-01-11, 11:32 AM
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Is "SAD" what used to be called "panic attacks"? If so that actually sounds sort of reasonable to me. You get anxious because you are not doing as well as you think you should be, which hinders your performance, which makes you anxious in a bad feedback loop.

Regardless of the cause, it seems like the right thing to do is unambiguous: back off the expectations and try to ride for fun, which it sounds like you're doing anyway.
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Old 07-02-11, 03:59 PM
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I've been kind of relaxing and not thinking too much about training. Yesterday I rode one of my favorite climbs out of Denver, and not planning for anything special rode my personal best 50 minutes at 270W. I'm starting to get that good feeling back in the legs. I'm cross-training today (competitive badminton - a sport I usually relegate to the winter months but have been playing the past two weeks), but will get back to "training" tomorrow.

Thanks for your support and help!
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