bostongarden

ftfy

learnmedia

Cruel dredging up old hurtful memories like that. I'll stop since there are so many more.

Racer Ex 

Speaking of the finger roll: people forget just how good he was...very athletic and would have been a monster in any era:


Couldn't hit a free throw to save his life.

zigmeister

Please stop with this stupid basketball nonsense! Foil/S5...thread subject.

Wait...the finger rolling sky hook?

Racer Ex 

That's played out. He should get the Scott or develop a relationship with Jancouver's relatives and pick up the Canyon.

mike9903

I agree with RacerX, I work for a shop that deals Cervelo in San Antonio and none of us are really that impressed with them.

Our mechanics hate the things because of all the problems they have with them, which is saying a lot.

bostongarden

He was a beast. Sidebar: my mother in law was in a class with him at KU.

AzTallRider

Pardon me for bringing back an old thread, but there is a good reason. I broke my Madone yesterday. It flew off the car rack at speed, possibly because I hadn't strapped it on, but there is no scientific proof of that, only anecdotal evidence with a sample of 1, so...

Anyway, racing season just started, and I need a fast (double meaning intended) replacement as I really don't want to be doing crit's on a steel bike with a 29cm head tube, nor RRs with a 22# bike. I've read and read and talked and talked, and especially given our relatively flat topography here, I'm ready to drink the aero Koolaid. The bike I've been jonesing for is the S5, because:

A. From my attempts at comparing all the various claims, it's hard not to to rate the S5 as the most aero. Going straight line at 25+, Cervelo claims it can save me ~30w over the Madone. 30w is, well, huge.
B. Having raced sailboats and spent a lot of time learning about aero shapes, I'm not too keen on the concept of the "truncated aero shape" Scott uses on the foil. Lets' just say nobody is going to build a sailboat mast that looks like that unless they have to. For anything except a crosswind situation, it's clearly a compromise to deal with the UCI rule.
C. The Cervelo has a stack of 63.My Madone has a stack of 65.4, and while I've been taking them out over time, I still have a couple spacers in. Reach is 4mm longer on the Cervelo.

Staying with frames that have the stack and reach I would get if custom sized is, to put it mildly, extremely limiting. Maybe there is a 64cm aero frame out there I haven't found, but I doubt it. I think it's time I do what Vansummeren does: ride a 61 and learn to like the drop.

So, having followed my twisted logic through to the desired conclusion of needing an S5, I find the comments on this thread more than mildly concerning. I don't want a headache, and it sounds like Cervelo has had issues with (a) the design of the seatpost fastener (b) manufacturing quality control, and (c) customer service. With a totally design driven company, this is understandable. But these sorts f issues tend to cause big damage to a brand, and my sense is that the brand has a fair amount of loyalty.

So, I'm asking for additional comment and discussion.

My team LBS carries both Cervelo and Scott. The owner (and captain, a Cat1) just put together an "ultimate aero" S5 project bike. Battery hidden internally, cables cleverly routed, the most aero brakes, and and they even mounted the computer on the TT behind the stem. He says the S5 is the best straight line road bike, and that the Scott is the better "all around bike" and climber. The shop also built an ultimate weight weenie Guru Photon that came in at about 12#. He can ride anything he wants, has a cycling specific wind tunnel in the back of the shop (currently still being tweaked and calibrated) and is racing the S5 this year, having decided "aero uber alles". Of course, owning the LBS, he really doesn't need to worry about warranty claims or having the bike in the shop. It's in the shop every day, and the shop has the best wrench in the valley.

AzTallRider

Oh, and I was shocked when someone called a finger roll the sky hook, but glad that was quickly corrected. Finger rolls were one of my few good moves playing hoops. We tall guys love stuff like that. :-) And Wilt... what an athlete. I met him at a book signing at a San Diego shopping mall when I was a kid. Talk about looking UP at someone. Wow. And he knew a thing or two about finger rolls too. I met Magic at a sporting goods trade show during his rookie season. I think his fingers went around my hand twice when he shook it. Who knew he'd win the title by filling in at center. Nobody like him before or since. Good memories.

zigmeister

I think you read wrong. The Foil has seat post clamp issues. They halted orders and redesigned the clamp to better hold the post, and prevent cracking in that area. Also, people say they don't have a lifetime warranty on a frame. Don't know why any manuf would have a lifetime warranty on a frame?!?! Does any car that has wear/tear get a lifetime warranty? Nope...and bikes take more/as much abuse...so, whatever, means nothing to me. But have a 1-2yr warranty is good enough for me.

Anyway, as the thread has talked about, there is no direct comparison of the Foil to S5. But as far as asthetics, Foil hands down. Aero/stiffness, it would be close, if not edged towards the Scott.

But, who knows when Foil is actually going to get the frame seat post resolved and get bikes going again. Call your dealer/email/call Scott CS and see if you can get some info.

I would have to say that all of the aero/weight stuff really matters to guys that aren't the strongest riders (me). I will take any aero/weight advantage I can get if it allows me to hang on for dear life in the peloton during a race. And if you have the money, do what you want. But man that S5 is fugly and that ridiculous head tube length.

AzTallRider

The foil has seat clamp issues, the Cervelo has a wedge that can drop down in the seat mast during adjustment, and uses a hard to replace metric bolt.

The S5 HT is there to avoid spacers, which aren't as aero. But it's noticeable that the stack is exactly the same as the R5, due to a shorter fork. And, with my height, the HT makes it more possible to fit me.

Anyone have some riding experience on the Foil that they can share?

zigmeister

Funny you mention that, becaue the Chinese knock offs of the Foil have the wedge design. Even they figured out that other method was bunk before Scott did.

Understood the fit issue, everyone is different for sure and the S5 might be a better fit/geometry. The only guy I knew who rode a Foil Premium is a LBS owner who was testing one out off the floor. Normally he rides his Guru custom road bike. He said he thinks he likes the Foil better. What exactly he meants by that, I don't know.

K1W1

Ok, so I am in the market for an aero bike - I do triathlon (and do quite well at OLY and Half Iron distances..) and have never owned a TT bike. I was thinking of getting one this season. My friend told me about her amazing S5. So I rethought - maybe I should just get a good aero racing roadbike like the S5. Then my hubby meets someone who swears by Scott, has him convinced this is the bike for me. Hmmm... After reading various reviews and this forum with all the talk about headtube heights etc I'm wondering, at 5'3" and 116lb, should I really be looking for an aero frame that fits my dimensions, or go for the best aero frame and adjust it where I need to for fit? And is there a website out there that I could plug my torso/leg length measurements in and it spits out current frames/stock bikes that would be the best fit?

Jancouver

For Tri get a TT bike. You should also look up slowswitch.com forum ...

valygrl

Get a professional bike fit first, then pick you TT frame. Best $1-200 you'll spend on bikes is the pre-purchase fit.

carpediemracing 

I have nothing else to add to the frame discussion. The Missus would like that toaster though.