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Getting disqualified

Old 01-21-12, 08:57 AM
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Debusama
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Getting disqualified

I was thinking about my last race of the season in which thought I was disqualified for a centerline violation. I was riding at the left edge of the back when a rider a few wheels ahead of me was letting a gap form and looking like he was falling off of the pack. There was enough room between the pack and the centerline to pass, so I tried to go around and get past the guy. As I was passing, a wind gust caused the entire pack to shift to the left, and forced me across the centerline. I knew that accidental centerline crossing was only cause for a disqualification if the rider who crossed advanced position. I first thought the pack would shift back and I could get back on the right side of the line and continue passing, but it stayed right on the line. Since I was already conspicuously riding on the wrong side of the line, I didn’t want to do anything overly aggressive to get back into the pack after a few seconds, the rider who was dropping fell off further and I was able to slip into the gap I had set out to fill to begin with.

A minute or two later, the officials car rode up next to me and he was looking at my number. We briefly made I contact, but he didn’t say anything. Since I got back into to pack ahead of the rider I was passing, I could understand how he might say that I had advanced my position. Assuming I was disqualified, I just sat in for the rest of the race and didn’t contest the sprint.

What is the protocol when one thinks he might have been disqualified? I looked at the race results, and there was no “DQ” or anything like that next to my name. It was kind of a special “best of the bunch” last race of the year which didn’t affect the series results and only the winner was placed. I’m still not sure if I was disqualified or not. In such a situation, would it have been acceptable for me to have continued to race as usual? At the time I felt certain I was disqualified and thought it was best to try not to interfere with the outcome of the race. But now I’m not sure. That wasn’t an important race, so it wasn’t a big deal, but I’d like to know for future reference how to handle such a situation

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Old 01-21-12, 09:16 AM
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My experience with yellow line rule violations has been that usually you get relegated to the back of the field and given a warning while on the road for a first infraction, then you get DQ'ed on the field after being warned for multiple infractions. But unless a stern lecture has been given pre-race warning of being DQ'ed, they tend to go the relegation / warning route.

The times I've seen people DQ'ed, they were pulled during the race.
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Old 01-21-12, 09:25 AM
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If the official came up to you, wave your hand or something. Say something like "hey, the field just shifted and put me over the yellow line. Am I disqualified or can I contest the rest of the race?"

If questioned further you can state that "technically I went by one person but I wasn't trying to use the yellow line to move up" and "I know to be more careful now".

Unless the moto ref is extremely inflexible your attitude and correct principle should keep you in the race. You're demonstrating that you're concerned about safety, you can learn, and you want to follow the rules. Those are good things.

Of course if you sprint up the left side of the yellow line just before the sprint then you'll never get a break ever again. Officials are people, they remember things people do. There is no time period where things get forgotten - heck, I remember bottle tosses, shoves, yelling, etc, from 10-15-20 years ago.
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Old 01-21-12, 11:04 AM
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if it doesn't say DQ next to your name on the official results within 15 minutes of the posting, then you were not DQed.
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Old 01-21-12, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by kensuf View Post

The times I've seen people DQ'ed, they were pulled during the race.
I saw them DQ a girl (and her whole team) after she crossed the line to WIN the P12 women's at Killington.

http://www.bikereg.com/Results/2011/...ace-Stage3.asp (her picture is right there too)
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Old 01-21-12, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
I saw them DQ a girl (and her whole team) after she crossed the line to WIN the P12 women's at Killington.

http://www.bikereg.com/Results/2011/...ace-Stage3.asp (her picture is right there too)
cheating canucks.
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Old 01-21-12, 11:45 AM
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apparently they were attacking over the line en masse.
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Old 01-21-12, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by botto View Post
cheating canucks.
Hey...
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Old 01-21-12, 12:02 PM
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never trust a tory.
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Old 01-21-12, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
I saw them DQ a girl (and her whole team) after she crossed the line to WIN the P12 women's at Killington.

http://www.bikereg.com/Results/2011/...ace-Stage3.asp (her picture is right there too)
Yup I know them...They were pissed!

There was more to it then that Grumpy...I know most of the parties involved...Just a bit of politics in women's cycling

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Old 01-21-12, 01:15 PM
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Well, I guess I wasn't disqualified. Good to know for next time.
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Old 01-21-12, 01:30 PM
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rkwaki, from what I heard from people I know and trust in that field, the DQ was justified. That's all I'm going to say about it.

OP, the moto refs around here will warn you verbally if you cross the line for whatever reason, even if you don't advance. The next time it's a DQ.
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Old 01-21-12, 01:49 PM
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I dont understand why you "assumed" you were disqualified...like kensuf said, Ive seen guys (in rr's last year) get relegated to the back as a warning. And when someone was dq'ed the officials made it quite clear. I wouldnt think they'd DQ you and allow you to continue having an affect in the group.
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Old 01-21-12, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
I dont understand why you "assumed" you were disqualified...like kensuf said, Ive seen guys (in rr's last year) get relegated to the back as a warning. And when someone was dq'ed the officials made it quite clear. I wouldnt think they'd DQ you and allow you to continue having an affect in the group.
Sometimes lots of folks get DQ'd as a convenience. I was in a geezer RR a couple of years ago where the chip timing system failed. It was part of a timed stage race, so finishing times were critical. If you crossed the finish line within 2 seconds of the group you got "same time".

At the finish of the race I was there and ready to play sitting in the middle just off the front. The "surge" went at about 600m to go, but everyone around me just sat there and watched it go down the road boxing me in. My first reaction was something that the nanny filter on BF wouldn't allow and I sat up. Once things cleared (both on the road and in my head) I went like mad to finish within the 2 seconds of the guys that got clear. And I'm sure that I did that.

During the rest of the day no official results were ever posted for that race. Ever. I kept asking all day.

No results were posted the next day either even though they would be critical in determining the stage race winner.

About a week later the results were posted on-line and most of the field in that race was DQ'd (given place number 99 in a field of about 30) and only the first couple of places were not.

I rode that race and there is no way in the world that the rest of the field did anything to be DQ'd. I know that I didn't and I don't recall seeing anything that anyone else did to be DQ'd either.
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Old 01-21-12, 04:27 PM
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When you're DQd you get DQ in the results field. (see the women's 1/2 field in the Killington results linked above). 99 means they didn't place you.

DQing people because the officials didn't place them (for whatever reason) would be wrong.

What happened to your results is why officials usually don't completely depend on the chip timing system and have people doing manual scoring as well.
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Old 01-21-12, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
I dont understand why you "assumed" you were disqualified...like kensuf said, Ive seen guys (in rr's last year) get relegated to the back as a warning. And when someone was dq'ed the officials made it quite clear. I wouldnt think they'd DQ you and allow you to continue having an affect in the group.
I knew I had just committed a violation, and then the official rode right up next to me to get my number. I couldn't think of any other reason why he might have done that. I guess I shouldn't have assumed.
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Old 01-21-12, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Debusama View Post
I knew I had just committed a violation, and then the official rode right up next to me to get my number. I couldn't think of any other reason why he might have done that. I guess I shouldn't have assumed.
Race unless you are told in unequivocal terms that you are disqualified. Otherwise, assume they were just noting down a warning.
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Old 01-21-12, 06:28 PM
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Generally an official will let you know when you're in violation of the centerline rule and also let you know if you get a warning, a relegation, or DQ'd. It isn't always possible or safe for the official to let you know right at the time of the violation. For example on a winding or hilly road, it wouldn't be too smart for the official to drive next to the pack in their car on the wrong side of the line, just to give you a warning. Sometimes a honk of the horn from the official serves as a warning. (although I've seen it done unfortunately). Like Shovelhd said, the motos refs are much better at enforcing the rule and giving riders notice of centerline violations.

The "centerline rule" is enforced differently in different areas. Officials are stricter in areas with higher automobile traffic, a history of complaints from the general public, or a history of centerline violations leading to injuries. I was told that last summer a rider who was over the centerline was hit by an oncoming truck. I was wondering if this will mean that officials, especially over in the Seattle area, will have to be stricter about the rule in response from pressure from the state DOT. We'll see.
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Old 01-21-12, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
rkwaki, from what I heard from people I know and trust in that field, the DQ was justified. That's all I'm going to say about it.

OP, the moto refs around here will warn you verbally if you cross the line for whatever reason, even if you don't advance. The next time it's a DQ.
Cool.
Though I can come off a little strong sometimes I have ultimate respect for officials and their judgement. Tough job and we don't give them near the respect we should.
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Old 01-23-12, 07:52 AM
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There's one official in particular here that seems like he'd rather argue with the offending party than relegate or DQ them.
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Old 01-23-12, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
Race unless you are told in unequivocal terms that you are disqualified. Otherwise, assume they were just noting down a warning.
This. In every race I have been in, it's very clear when a rider is warned or DQ'd. There has been no question about it.
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Old 01-23-12, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Debusama View Post
I knew I had just committed a violation, and then the official rode right up next to me to get my number. I couldn't think of any other reason why he might have done that. I guess I shouldn't have assumed.
The official may have been getting your number just to "keep an eye on you".
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Old 01-23-12, 08:16 AM
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I can honestly say I never encountered this issue (i.e. yellow line) the only true DQ issues I have had were someone trying to get me tossed for taking both hands off the bars while crossing the line (years ago you could not do this) and of course the regular rkwaki racing issues (you know which ones I mean )

My opinion is race until the officials crash you out, then you know they are dq'ing you for sure.
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Old 01-25-12, 03:31 PM
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This has been an interesting read. I thought I would pitch in with what is currently being taught to new motorefs/officials. I helped developed a lot of the instructional material being used.

The OP's original post is pretty typical of what I see when working as a motoref at events. In the lower categories I also tend to see a lot of new riders who are scared to sit in the field and tend to "camp" out by the centerline. The philosophical discussion officials have had is how to treat this. If you get bumped out, thus possibly avoiding a crash should you get dinged for it? Common sense, and the way we are currently training officials, is that this would not be an infraction or would be a warning. Just remember, the car/semi coming the other way does't care that you didn't mean to do it!

What will get you dinged? Consistently riding on the yellow line will get you a warning/chat, moving over yellow on purpose and not advancing will usually get you relegated (pulled to the back to restart your race) and a blatant/dangerous move to advance will generally get you DQed on the spot or post race. We tend to be stricter with races where there are known issues, such as traffic, strict police or complaints and attempt to communicate this before the race - so listen to those pre race announcements!

Also, we are teaching motors to try and effectively communicate. As an example, if the OP was DQed we want him and the field to know it. This stops the dangerous situation, keeps him from effecting the outcome of the race from that point on and communicates to the field that the official is watching - deterring more issues. Of course this is much more difficult in an auto than on a motor. And we write all kinds of things down - time splits, lapped rider #s, and yes, riders who we are watching for centerline violations.

Hope that brings some clarity. 99% of the motors I work with are there to make racing safer and more fair.
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Old 01-25-12, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tech Director View Post
99% of the motors I work with are there to make racing safer and more fair.
And thanks for that!
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