What do you do to avoid crashes?
02-02-12, 01:18 PM
#26
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first, you want to be a loudmouth in the group. when riding along, yell at everyone for everything, be sure to yell "hold your line", "turn the bike not your body", and "pedal" at least 3x every race. loudly. if you do, you'll never fall down. you know you're doing this enough if you're voice is nearly gone after a 35 minute +2 lap crit. if you still have a voice, you need to yell louder and more often.
second, blame everyone for anything that happens to you when racing/riding, except if you win, you did that on your own. this is a self confident attitude that will prevent crashing.
third, after every race, stand around with others and talk about how sketchy everyone else was, especially the guy on the serotta or u/a rider. just pick someone different. everyone will agree. this will help you establish yourself high in the pecking order and get you respect when you need some space on race day.
fourth, while discussing how sketchy everyone was, make sure you mention that you tried to organize a breakaway, but no one wanted to race today. say it in those exact words. this will also gain you the admiration of your peers and be helpful to you on raceday.
second, blame everyone for anything that happens to you when racing/riding, except if you win, you did that on your own. this is a self confident attitude that will prevent crashing.
third, after every race, stand around with others and talk about how sketchy everyone else was, especially the guy on the serotta or u/a rider. just pick someone different. everyone will agree. this will help you establish yourself high in the pecking order and get you respect when you need some space on race day.
fourth, while discussing how sketchy everyone was, make sure you mention that you tried to organize a breakaway, but no one wanted to race today. say it in those exact words. this will also gain you the admiration of your peers and be helpful to you on raceday.
02-02-12, 02:29 PM
#27
SkinnyStrong
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first, you want to be a loudmouth in the group. when riding along, yell at everyone for everything, be sure to yell "hold your line", "turn the bike not your body", and "pedal" at least 3x every race. loudly. if you do, you'll never fall down. you know you're doing this enough if you're voice is nearly gone after a 35 minute +2 lap crit. if you still have a voice, you need to yell louder and more often.
second, blame everyone for anything that happens to you when racing/riding, except if you win, you did that on your own. this is a self confident attitude that will prevent crashing.
third, after every race, stand around with others and talk about how sketchy everyone else was, especially the guy on the serotta or u/a rider. just pick someone different. everyone will agree. this will help you establish yourself high in the pecking order and get you respect when you need some space on race day.
fourth, while discussing how sketchy everyone was, make sure you mention that you tried to organize a breakaway, but no one wanted to race today. say it in those exact words. this will also gain you the admiration of your peers and be helpful to you on raceday.
second, blame everyone for anything that happens to you when racing/riding, except if you win, you did that on your own. this is a self confident attitude that will prevent crashing.
third, after every race, stand around with others and talk about how sketchy everyone else was, especially the guy on the serotta or u/a rider. just pick someone different. everyone will agree. this will help you establish yourself high in the pecking order and get you respect when you need some space on race day.
fourth, while discussing how sketchy everyone was, make sure you mention that you tried to organize a breakaway, but no one wanted to race today. say it in those exact words. this will also gain you the admiration of your peers and be helpful to you on raceday.
02-02-12, 04:02 PM
#28
Tiocfáidh ár Lá
I've only crashed in training but close calls in road races. I've probably crashed in every MTB race but thats another story. There's almost nothing you can do about it some times but as was mentioned being vigilant helps. Anyone who tells you the lower cats crash more than the pro/1/2 have never raced pro/1/2 or watched enough of them. They are just as bad. Masters I would tend to agree are not as willing to make some of the dumb moves that other cats will but even so.
02-02-12, 04:04 PM
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Whenever possible have an out and don't freak when it happens right in front of you. I don't remember seeing the crash because I was looking up the road. I do remember seeing his front wheel out of the corner of my eye.
And what everybody else said.
And what everybody else said.
02-02-12, 04:37 PM
#30
ride lots be safe
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Something else I noticed: the 2nd rider's front spokes got caught on the idiot's rear QR, bringing down the idiot also. ... I can't tell you how many riders I see whose QR's are sticking straight up, just waiting to grab somebody's spokes.
02-02-12, 04:42 PM
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Instinct?
While I realize that I am a relative newbie to racing and this section of the forums I can say that out of all the hair raising situations (Including one race crash) the trick was to just relax and not worry that a crash was happening, simply avoid it.
I know it sounds lik a "No duh" or "That is not always possible" but I seem to find that if you relax in a situation like a crash you have a greater chance of doing the right thing. If you do go down, well, atleast a limp body takes less damage then a stiff one.
While I realize that I am a relative newbie to racing and this section of the forums I can say that out of all the hair raising situations (Including one race crash) the trick was to just relax and not worry that a crash was happening, simply avoid it.
I know it sounds lik a "No duh" or "That is not always possible" but I seem to find that if you relax in a situation like a crash you have a greater chance of doing the right thing. If you do go down, well, atleast a limp body takes less damage then a stiff one.
02-02-12, 04:47 PM
#32
Elite Fred
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I always close my QR's close to the fork (just behind) on the front and in the back between the chain and seat stays closer to the seat stay. It makes me safer along with the idiots that I ride with.
02-02-12, 06:22 PM
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God what a stupid move... but I noticed you DID move left as soon as the idiot rider started his swerve, even if you "didn't notice" consciously.
Something else I noticed: the 2nd rider's front spokes got caught on the idiot's rear QR, bringing down the idiot also. ... I can't tell you how many riders I see whose QR's are sticking straight up, just waiting to grab somebody's spokes.
Something else I noticed: the 2nd rider's front spokes got caught on the idiot's rear QR, bringing down the idiot also. ... I can't tell you how many riders I see whose QR's are sticking straight up, just waiting to grab somebody's spokes.
Nice reflexes, just move with the group left/right like he did, and ended up not getting hit.
02-02-12, 06:52 PM
#34
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first, you want to be a loudmouth in the group. when riding along, yell at everyone for everything, be sure to yell "hold your line", "turn the bike not your body", and "pedal" at least 3x every race. loudly. if you do, you'll never fall down. you know you're doing this enough if you're voice is nearly gone after a 35 minute +2 lap crit. if you still have a voice, you need to yell louder and more often.
second, blame everyone for anything that happens to you when racing/riding, except if you win, you did that on your own. this is a self confident attitude that will prevent crashing.
third, after every race, stand around with others and talk about how sketchy everyone else was, especially the guy on the serotta or u/a rider. just pick someone different. everyone will agree. this will help you establish yourself high in the pecking order and get you respect when you need some space on race day.
fourth, while discussing how sketchy everyone was, make sure you mention that you tried to organize a breakaway, but no one wanted to race today. say it in those exact words. this will also gain you the admiration of your peers and be helpful to you on raceday.
second, blame everyone for anything that happens to you when racing/riding, except if you win, you did that on your own. this is a self confident attitude that will prevent crashing.
third, after every race, stand around with others and talk about how sketchy everyone else was, especially the guy on the serotta or u/a rider. just pick someone different. everyone will agree. this will help you establish yourself high in the pecking order and get you respect when you need some space on race day.
fourth, while discussing how sketchy everyone was, make sure you mention that you tried to organize a breakaway, but no one wanted to race today. say it in those exact words. this will also gain you the admiration of your peers and be helpful to you on raceday.
Got pinched at the sprint! Guy chopped my wheel, I would have finished third.
Good stuff!
02-02-12, 09:16 PM
#36
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Thanks for all of the discussion, lots of good stuff!
02-02-12, 09:33 PM
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My buddy is the one who got sideswiped in the video. I'll have to let him know that his misfortune has been a topic of discussion on the internets.
If you look real close you'll notice the offender is racing unattached. Good call MDCatV.
02-03-12, 11:06 PM
#39
**** that
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And then someone further up in the pack did the idiotic thing of looking back, and swerving way out to the left as a result... breaking the rule of "don't look back" when a crash happens, he was lucky there wasn't more carnage.
Also, I'd like to point out that was a masters race.. I really don't buy the whole masters-is-safer mantra. (tho I know one video isn't proof of anything)
Also, I'd like to point out that was a masters race.. I really don't buy the whole masters-is-safer mantra. (tho I know one video isn't proof of anything)
02-04-12, 09:50 AM
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I will admit to have made a sketchy move or two last year as I re-acclimatized to racing again after decades off. I was yelled at. No carnage ensued.
02-04-12, 11:13 AM
#42
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I don't think it's a hard and fast rule or anything, just that the odds of idiocy at the front are lower as, at least around here, the best Masters are P/1/2/3 and generally have a ton of experience. Most of the ones that are 3's have chosen to downgrade and race Cat3 for results.
I will admit to have made a sketchy move or two last year as I re-acclimatized to racing again after decades off. I was yelled at. No carnage ensued.
I will admit to have made a sketchy move or two last year as I re-acclimatized to racing again after decades off. I was yelled at. No carnage ensued.
02-04-12, 09:15 PM
#43
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Around here, M40+ is a whole different animal than the Cat3's (I can't tell you about the 4's). Very smooth, very fast, very aggressive.
02-04-12, 09:32 PM
#44
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Even at 60+ you are going to find guys that can shred the legs of all but the sand-bagger/"just passing through" Cat 3's. Dave Viney is 60+ where I live. Actually he can shred most of their legs as well.
02-05-12, 08:38 AM
#45
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I had two crashes last year. I was wearing a camera in both so was able to view the footage to see what I might have done differently.
Crash one I don't think I could have avoided. I had won an intermediate sprint in a circuit race and was coasting through a 90 degree right hand turn. I heard someone locking up their brakes after somehow overcooking the turn (100 yards after the sprint!) and then boom, he hits me on the the right side and knocks me over - almost into and over the guard rail into the stream below. Maybe I should have taken a more inside line but other than that, not sure what I should have done.
The second one was my fault.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sj70RG0lUI Go to about 3 minutes into the video to the see the crash.
Because the road narrows from 3 lanes to one in the corner, I could/should have just moved up before the corner rather than getting lazy and getting squeezed. Was really lucky that I flipped and landed on my back on a second hay bail on the traffic island. Unfortunately it was only two laps to go so no free lap rule so my race was over.
With the camera, I notice a heck of a lot that I completely missed during the race. It is helping me be more aware of what/who to avoid in future races.
Crash one I don't think I could have avoided. I had won an intermediate sprint in a circuit race and was coasting through a 90 degree right hand turn. I heard someone locking up their brakes after somehow overcooking the turn (100 yards after the sprint!) and then boom, he hits me on the the right side and knocks me over - almost into and over the guard rail into the stream below. Maybe I should have taken a more inside line but other than that, not sure what I should have done.
The second one was my fault.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sj70RG0lUI Go to about 3 minutes into the video to the see the crash.
Because the road narrows from 3 lanes to one in the corner, I could/should have just moved up before the corner rather than getting lazy and getting squeezed. Was really lucky that I flipped and landed on my back on a second hay bail on the traffic island. Unfortunately it was only two laps to go so no free lap rule so my race was over.
With the camera, I notice a heck of a lot that I completely missed during the race. It is helping me be more aware of what/who to avoid in future races.
02-05-12, 06:10 PM
#46
Senior Member
I was just willing you to get around that lump of riders when you were hanging out on the side. Even if you make the effort to get to the single file stuff, you can ease up and let people "swarm" you just a bit (like 2 guys) and then sit in.
Cameras don't lie. I find myself making all sorts of optimistic errors.
"At the bell I was sitting about 15th or so"
(actually 30th)
"I went to the inside just before the sprint"
(I went to the inside after I started sprinting)
"I jumped at like 300m to go"
(I jumped just around 200m to go)
It's very good for reviewing stuff. It's also very telling when I can (for my own clips) fast forward through 80% of the race because there's nothing to see when I'm sitting on the back of the field.
You can also critique riders a bit better (cornering lines especially). Little things that I may not notice show up obvious on clips.
Cameras don't lie. I find myself making all sorts of optimistic errors.
"At the bell I was sitting about 15th or so"
(actually 30th)
"I went to the inside just before the sprint"
(I went to the inside after I started sprinting)
"I jumped at like 300m to go"
(I jumped just around 200m to go)
It's very good for reviewing stuff. It's also very telling when I can (for my own clips) fast forward through 80% of the race because there's nothing to see when I'm sitting on the back of the field.
You can also critique riders a bit better (cornering lines especially). Little things that I may not notice show up obvious on clips.
02-05-12, 11:55 PM
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thanks whoever put me on ******.
02-06-12, 01:30 PM
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Relaxed - tips?
Others above had made the point that staying relaxed is very important, and I completely agree. With apologies for taking things in a sports psychology direction, I wonder if anyone can offer up some tips in that regard.
Back for most of my road racing "career," I was almost always completely relaxed on the bike. I also never crashed in a race, despite plenty of good opportunities.
Until I did - I was "too" motivated in a crit, and when I guy started sliding across my path through a corner on the last lap when I was well placed, I was determined not to let it cost me the race. So instead it caused me a very scary crash. After that, I was tense on the bike in races, and started overreacting when things went wrong around me. Results: predictable.
Fast forward over a decade, and I'm five years back into riding and three years into racing 'cross. I have the bug, and plan on starting back racing on the road again this spring. From 'cross I can confirm my bike handling skills are intact - but I am worried about my ability to be as relaxed heading into a corner in a pack at 30 mph as I am on a muddy off-camber. Any tips? Those of you who have to remind yourself to stay relaxed during races, how do you successfully do it?
Back for most of my road racing "career," I was almost always completely relaxed on the bike. I also never crashed in a race, despite plenty of good opportunities.
Until I did - I was "too" motivated in a crit, and when I guy started sliding across my path through a corner on the last lap when I was well placed, I was determined not to let it cost me the race. So instead it caused me a very scary crash. After that, I was tense on the bike in races, and started overreacting when things went wrong around me. Results: predictable.
Fast forward over a decade, and I'm five years back into riding and three years into racing 'cross. I have the bug, and plan on starting back racing on the road again this spring. From 'cross I can confirm my bike handling skills are intact - but I am worried about my ability to be as relaxed heading into a corner in a pack at 30 mph as I am on a muddy off-camber. Any tips? Those of you who have to remind yourself to stay relaxed during races, how do you successfully do it?