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Race Winning Interval for final lap in crits?

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Race Winning Interval for final lap in crits?

Old 02-14-12, 09:31 PM
  #1  
spessx
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Race Winning Interval for final lap in crits?

Hey guys,

The crits are getting started for the season and I'm getting to the specific part of my training. I'd like some suggestions for an RWI for the last lap of a crit. I'm guessing it should look like racing into the 2nd to the last turn, holding power output and then sprinting.

Here's what I was thinking:

2M@120%FTP
45 S @ 150%FTP
15 S @ All out sprint

6-7 minute recovery between intervals.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

-s
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Old 02-15-12, 04:04 AM
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dunno. what about the 45 minutes @95% that precedes that effort? That six to seven minutes is about the time before my next race....45 mins at 95%, 2M@120%FTP, 45 S @ 150%FTP, 15 S @ All out sprint. I probably only have two of those in me though.
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Old 02-15-12, 06:43 AM
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That looks OK for the last lap of a crit when you're in the field, but that doesn't make it "race winning". If you're OTF in a break, it's a different kind of effort. If you're OTF solo, it's a completely different kind of effort.
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Old 02-15-12, 06:48 AM
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I would add drinking an entire bottle of energy drink and a gel in the 6-7 minute period before the next 45 min @95% to get the stomach adjusted to it.

Someone suggested a pb&j between races but I didn't want to risk that.
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Old 02-15-12, 07:28 AM
  #5  
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think you need to account for how YOU can win a crit.

if your a strong sprinter your intervals look great but I like gsteinb's idea

if you have the power to win by attacking with 2-3 laps to go and holding on but you can't sprint you need to adjust like suggested above


think about what gives you the best chance of winning.
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Old 02-15-12, 08:17 AM
  #6  
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Before answering let me ask the question(s):
Category?
Years Racing?
Years Training?
Are you looking to win a race assuming you are in the pack at the start of the last lap or are you trying to win the race using a last lap flyer or group sprint?
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Old 02-15-12, 08:22 AM
  #7  
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Hunter and Allen have what they call Race winning intervals in their book. IIRC is something like 1 minute all out, 10 minutes FTP then 20 second sprint.

It's from the pattern they saw in successful break aways. 1 minute to establish the break, 10 minutes away, and then sprint from your break away companions.
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Old 02-15-12, 08:25 AM
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doesn't all out assume you can't go anymore? How then would one go all out for a minute and then do 10 minutes at threshold. must be some kind of % of FTP on the first part...a minute all out is a kilo effort and you usually walk funny for a few days from those...never mind hang in for a bunch more to win the race.
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Old 02-15-12, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
doesn't all out assume you can't go anymore? How then would one go all out for a minute and then do 10 minutes at threshold. must be some kind of % of FTP on the first part...a minute all out is a kilo effort and you usually walk funny for a few days from those...never mind hang in for a bunch more to win the race.
Great point.
When I do all out intervals at home I will use the spin bike. I have posted before:
Almost a standing start with what I would call 3/4 tension
First 5 seconds - standing start to 170-180 rpm and hold for additional 10 seconds for a 15 second interval (255-350 meters), rest 45 seconds and repeat.
I can hardly walk when I am done and I get starry eyed, hence my preference to do them inside
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Old 02-15-12, 09:40 AM
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this was the issue I had last year trying to get away from the field. After going as hard as I could for a minute or so, no way I could maintain enough effort to stay away...Im focusing mostly on longer duration efforts this year. Long rides, lots of zone 4 etc...
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Old 02-15-12, 09:48 AM
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From the Allen Coogan book:


30 sec - Sprint. Peak at 300% of FTP and average 200%
3 min - 100-110% FTP
10 sec - Sprint 200+% FTP

5 min recovery then do it again. Total of 5-8 times
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Old 02-15-12, 09:52 AM
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It really is an issue of what your strength is. For me I would rather sit and wait (a la Cavendish) and then drop some big power for 1/2 a lap then leave it all on the table for 250 meters. That is my strength. I tend not to try and get away from the field, I would rather just sit and make friends A second strength is the ability to bridge the gap to a break which I have done well, the problem is that when I bridge that gap to other riders one of two things happen:
1. Everyone wants to ride my wheel
2. They try to work me over so that it doesn't come down to a sprint. I heard one coach yelling at his team (I was in a break of about 8 - 3 or 4 from one team) "You don't want to sprint him" - they subsequently started boxing me in and working me over relentlessly. That was the day my wife went over and congratulated the coach on a job well done, she said something like I guess if you can't beat him, box him in.
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Old 02-15-12, 10:02 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by SalsaPodio View Post
From the Allen Coogan book:


30 sec - Sprint. Peak at 300% of FTP and average 200%
3 min - 100-110% FTP
10 sec - Sprint 200+% FTP

5 min recovery then do it again. Total of 5-8 times
you had mentioned that you won a few races from kilo or two out, do you think these helped?
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Old 02-15-12, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by SalsaPodio View Post
From the Allen Coogan book:


30 sec - Sprint. Peak at 300% of FTP and average 200%
3 min - 100-110% FTP
10 sec - Sprint 200+% FTP

5 min recovery then do it again. Total of 5-8 times
When does one typically start doing these workouts? During late Build phase?
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Old 02-15-12, 10:40 AM
  #15  
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From Steve Coogan's book:

“I love Sherlock Holmes. I've got all his books, leather-bound. What I thought was great about Sherlock Holmes was that not only was he a supersleuth, he was also a hard worker. Not only did he go out and solve the crimes, he came home and wrote it all down. Fantastic. That's why I admire him.”
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Old 02-15-12, 11:15 AM
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practice using these instead
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Old 02-16-12, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
this was the issue I had last year trying to get away from the field. After going as hard as I could for a minute or so, no way I could maintain enough effort to stay away...Im focusing mostly on longer duration efforts this year. Long rides, lots of zone 4 etc...
I'm the same way - staying otf is too hard!

So instead, what scored me wins in two crits last year was to attack about halfway in to the last lap, while everyone else is riding wheels and getting ready for corner 4.

That way by the time you start feeling sick you're about 10m from the line, not 1000m.

It also helps to have a team working for you that tries to make everyone else tired earlier in the race while you sit in. Seems like lots of folks don't have that luxury; being a solo hero is way harder for sure.

But like rkwaki said, you gotta do what works for you.

edit: more a propos to the thread, I never did any practice intervals for that type of attack. Racing is my intervals.
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Old 02-16-12, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
edit: more a propos to the thread, I never did any practice intervals for that type of attack. Racing is my intervals.
Training races are perfect for this kind of work. So you got caught at the line at a training race. Whoop de doo.
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Old 02-16-12, 06:47 AM
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what's a training race?
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Old 02-16-12, 07:36 AM
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I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not, but the Rent is a training race. I believe it's a Category E event. CDR can confirm.
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Old 02-16-12, 07:44 AM
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it's not sarcasm at all. In NY cycling blogs I see everything under the sun referred to as a training race. every race I've ever done, training rides as well, someone is trying to win.
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Old 02-16-12, 07:51 AM
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I hear ya. Nothing wrong with that. There are sprinters at the Rent that just sit in and sprint at the end for the win. If that's what they want out of their $13, so be it. It makes for a pretty expensive can of beer. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not on my agenda. I'm not going to beat young Cat1's in a sprint so I use training races to beat the piss out of myself. Attack, attack, attack. Get in as many breaks as I can. Stay OTF for as long as I can and find whatever is left for the sprint. My point in this thread is to use training races for training and forget about winning.
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Old 02-16-12, 08:06 AM
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Just maintain 37mph the final lap...you got it in the bag...nobody will hold your wheel.
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Old 02-16-12, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by zigmeister View Post
Just maintain 37mph the final lap...you got it in the bag...nobody will hold your wheel.
Just the sprinters salivating over the awesome leadout. At 35 mph, sitting second wheel behind my leadout man, my heart rate dropped 5 bpm in 20 seconds. It let me sprint for close to 20 seconds, vs waiting another few and sprinting for 13-15 seconds.

42 mph, now you're talking.
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Old 02-16-12, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not, but the Rent is a training race. I believe it's a Category E event. CDR can confirm.
Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
it's not sarcasm at all. In NY cycling blogs I see everything under the sun referred to as a training race. every race I've ever done, training rides as well, someone is trying to win.
Most of the races guys do in NY area are Cat E racing, typically labeled training races. Cheaper to permit, less prizes. Even a lot of the Sunday races are such. I didn't research any but I know that the Kissena Prospect races ("Blistered Butt RR" etc) are all legit one day races, but since they repeat, most people treat them as a training series. I believe most racers would approach Bethel the same way (which are a series of single day Cat D races).

The Rent is for sure a training race. A good tip - if the promoter categorizes by letters only (A race, B race) it's really a training race. If they use categories (Cat 4 etc), even category + letters (Cat 5A), it's probably a one day Cat e or D race (or higher).
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