alexp247365

Thanks for the explanation.

jwible

Also riding in the drops protects the bars from getting hooked by another rider.

alexp247365

I bet that was more a product of poor sprint form, as he's in the front and has no reason to hit the brakes.

Monkeyclaw

The drops are also considered more stable, making it easier to absorb bumps from others, corner better, descend better, etc.

agoodale

I don't think he's on the brakes. The rider that went down slammed into his rear wheel popping it up and to the side.

Brian Ratliff

For little feathering actions, no need to keep a finger on the lever. Just move to the lever when necessary. You should be working on maneuvering around the pack while using your brakes only very sparingly.

Brian Ratliff

Why in the world would you be "accidentally" locking up anything, front or rear? Braking is deliberate, or should be. See, this is why roadies should at least do a bit of track racing...

saratoga

FL makes anyone who wants their mc endorsement take the 15 hour MSF basic skilz course... would a similar USAC subsidized intro to racing course help new racers?

I've been an MSF RiderCoach for a few years. Some get it, some have a good foundation and pick up on things they didn't know or didn't realize. It's the ones that already have bad habits who are too hard headed to change that are dangerous. Bike racing is the same I'd bet.

carpediemracing 

This is a 3-4 race, with some tight racing at the end. It's possible to move around a bit in a tight pack but it requires some awareness.

waterrockets 

There are different skill levels when it comes to brake modulation, turning traction needed, and braking traction needed. Saying that "braking is deliberate" frames it as a binary decision, but brakes have a force curve with respect to lever displacement; braking traction is variable based on deceleration rate (unweighting the rear); lastly, cornering traction (creating the centripital force that keeps you in a turn) is also variable.

Rather than solving all those integrals in your head, you can just leave the rear brake out of the equation and use the front as required. This way you won't misjudge how tight you're turning and lock up the rear by asking for more braking traction than cornering traction. One of my teammates got his Cat 3 upgrade without a working rear break (sweat messed up the cable/housing) for the whole season, with no crashes.

gbot

Question about this video (more a general question but the video illustrates it well) - at about 2:10-2:15, it looks like you're overlapping wheels with the rider in the 'bethel' kit on your left. From my experience in cat4 racing, this kind of move is something I wouldn't do.

Am I mis-reading what's going on here? Do you know and trust this particular rider? Could you comment on this type of situation and what your thought process is when riding in this kind of pack, where the spacing is relatively uneven and being in this position is often likely?

Creakyknees

I snorted at this.

rkwaki

Just read through this thread regarding drops vs. hoods. I spend most of my time on the hoods with the exception of sprinting of course (hence my setup).

Getting on the drops won't make my 48" chest anymore aero

carpediemracing 

Good questions, and they make sense. The camera angle makes the Bethel rider look a bit closer but no, you're not reading anything incorrectly here. There are some variables that make me think that doing this is okay.

First, if you look later, the Bethel rider is later identified as one of the instructors. I trust him implicitly. So, yes, I know and trust this rider. I've done some very long rides with him, I've sat 2 inches off his wheel for a minute at a time (while I was absolutely redlined, I should add), and I've never had a close call with him.

Second, and this is tough to see, the cam is on my helmet, and my head is pretty far forward. So I don't think I was overlapping his rear wheel. If I was but I was a foot or two to the side, I would be less inclined to say "overlap". But since I trust him implicitly, it wouldn't cross my mind to not overlap his wheel. It wasn't part of my conscious thought.

Third, and this is not possible to see, I've practiced touching wheels and I usually get a chance or two every year to refresh myself on how to touch wheels. So even if I touched wheels I feel reasonably confident I can stay up. Therefore overlapping a bit isn't as nerve wracking as it could be.

Fourth, since it's the first lap of the race, no one is doing anything stupid. It's pretty relaxed, it's literally the first lap of the season for many riders, and everyone's being careful.

Fifth, in most races the spacing is relatively uneven. I consider that normal. Bike racing isn't as organized as what you see on TV, with massive team leadouts and such. It gets really chaotic and it becomes very instinctive, all the moving around and such. I'd say that the particular lap in question the spacing is pretty generous - it's the first lap, it's casual, and everyone is getting used to racing the bike again.

And finally, it's Bethel. I haven't counted all the races I've done here, but I've only skipped a few races in 20 years. About half those years we had 7 races a year (6 for the rest), and in maybe 15 of those years I did most of 2 races each week. For many years I was doing 70+ racing laps a week (I only did about 40-42 laps last week; other weeks I've done as many as 83 laps). If you add it all up (20yrs x 6wks x 50 laps to be safe), it adds up to 6000 laps. I'm pretty comfortable on that course, and it's almost second nature to read the wind, the riders, the pack. I feel a sense of comfort and familiarity that I simply do not feel anywhere else.

If you look at other videos (2011 P123 Keith Berger Crit), I think I was leaning on Anthony exiting Turn 3 on the last lap, right near the end of the video. In the 2006 Propect Park race, two guys lean really hard on me in the last mile or so. When I say hard, it's like someone laying on you. The helmet cam doesn't capture a lot of that kind of contact etc.

gbot

That all makes a lot of sense, thanks for the response!

DocM

CDR lies--he was not redlined that time on my wheel (I remember it well). How do I know? He obliterated me in one of the town line sprints.

The lesson to take from this? Never trust a sprinter who says he's tired or his legs aren't in it today or he is sick. He is putting you to sleep so he can whip past you at ungodly speeds in the final meters.

carpediemracing 

Frick. That's a secret you're not supposed to share. Haha.

I have to get the clinic stuff together for this week. Registration will close tomorrow so... Lots of good feedback so far.

Creakyknees

I got yelled at in the crit last night. I believe the exact words were "HOLD YOUR LINE!!!!"

After I realized it was me that was being yelled at, I tried to figure out what I had done to offend the party. No idea. Just following wheels. Maybe it was the crosswind pushing everyone into the gutter, up against the curb?

carpediemracing 

That stuff happens.

I got yelled at in a Hartford Crit. "You, Camelbak, hold your line!"

If you look at the clip, the guy to my inside doesn't turn in with everyone else (reviewing other clips I realized that this is a trait of this particular rider). With others just off my left hip I had to try and turn in. The rider to my inside pushes into me, forcing me outward. (about 2:35-2:45 in clip)

Then I get yelled at.

My fault? No. Was I going to stop and explain? No. I'm sure that in that guy's book that I'm a poor bike handler.

The Camelbak was my camera rig at the time, holding a camcorder, 8 AA batteries, and cables.

Kadowaki

Only in bike racing is there so much yelling at each other. If you've got enough air to yell ride off and don't worry about sucking wheel on someone unsuitable.
HTFU ans SU!

david58

Referring to a post about 10 days ago, I wish there were more clinics available for newbies. I have absolutely no plans to do road races or crits, but I would attend clinics to improve my skills. I learned a loooong time ago (downhill skiing) that humbling oneself and taking lessons or instruction will save years of trial and error (and I have found that crashes from my bike - even clip crashes at my mailbox - hurt more than the high speed dumps I suffered skiing).

botto 

shut up.

rkwaki

Haha. I'm a yeller (I know you find this hard to believe).

botto 

i bet you're just as shocked to discover that i am as well.

just ask cdr.

Rollfast

danke, botto!