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deep race carbon race wheels....brand name or boyd,williams or psimet

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deep race carbon race wheels....brand name or boyd,williams or psimet

Old 04-12-12, 05:41 PM
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Smallguy
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deep race carbon race wheels....brand name or boyd,williams or psimet

I'm in the market for some deep 58mm ish tubular race wheels in the next 6 months or so

my understanding is the sub 1k carbon wheels on the market are less expensive because of less R&D... am I wrong?

on the other hand the names like Zipp and HED are the R&D gurus in the trenches and are more on the bleeding edge of technology while other follow as patents expire.... am I wrong?

so my question is are zipps and HED really worth the extra ?

I can technically afford both but for the same dollar figure I could have multiple wheel set combinations with boyd or williams or psimet or could even get my wife a wheelset.
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Old 04-12-12, 05:54 PM
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I went Edge (now Enve) only because of the team deal that was 30% below wholesale. With that I could always sell on EBAY and make money if I didn't like them.

Otherwise I would have gone PSIMET.
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Old 04-12-12, 06:04 PM
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"you're not wrong, walter, you're just an [a-hole]!" (not directed at you...just thought of the quote)

but no, you're not wrong.

zipp and HED - and ENVE, and maybe reynolds with the RZR - are definitely "in the trenches" in terms of R&D. but that trickles down, and whether the new, top-of-the-line stuff is "worth it" is really subjective. is it worth it to you? i don't know. keep in mind that there are less expensive options currently using technology that used to be cutting-edge, such as SRAM wheels, which are basically old Zipp clinchers. those are probably still faster than most generic carbon wheels.

edit: didn't know you couldn't say a-hole.
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Old 04-12-12, 07:49 PM
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you can say ass, but not fat*** or ***hole

jest aside, there are mass produced wheels with torroidal shaped wheels, american classic comes to mind

williams may also use an open-source torroidal rim

Last edited by echappist; 04-12-12 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 04-12-12, 08:17 PM
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HED jet express 5. $1550, at the cutting edge in terms of the current zeitgeist of aero/rim shapes.
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Old 04-12-12, 08:43 PM
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The gains from the latest Zipp/HED versus other deep rims are pretty minimal (and I have the latest HED C2's). I think the difference is real, but there is a point of diminishing returns. You'll get almost all of the aero benefit with the same depth, except that in cross winds the wheel will 'stall' earlier.

I got the HED's as part of a sponsorship deal, otherwise I would have gotten a cheaper set.
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Old 04-12-12, 09:48 PM
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Zipp 404's off Craigslist for $300. They're the older non-dimpled model, but they look as if they've had very few miles. If you're short on cash, look used.
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Old 04-12-12, 09:49 PM
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My bike budget is pretty small, so I got generic deep carbon tubular rims and built them on hubs I already had. I also got a nice used Zipp 404 from Ebay. They may not be the best, but better than what I had for not too much $$.

I suppose the "right" answer is get the best wheels you can afford. Every little bit helps. But the cost/benefit is personal based on your own finances and other areas you could spend the money (power meter, tires, coaching...)
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Old 04-12-12, 10:05 PM
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One thing about the brand name rims is that they're pretty light. 60mm tubulars that are 1400g. A teammate has the Williams 58s and they feel slower/heavier. He uses my Reynolds DV46s instead, and they're 1550g or so (and not very aero).

I also asked about HED's production (I have HEDs). A friend told me they are made by a good company, at least the carbon part. I don't know who makes any other rims (and I don't have any friends that can illuminate me in an unbiased way). I trust HED products is what I'm trying to say.

I also bought into the "wide is aero" if I wanted to stick with normal tubulars (21-23mm), and that was because I asked a wind tunnel guy about aero wheels (and frames and helmets and everything else I could ask). He pointed out that if I wanted to race 19mm tires that the narrow wheels would be better, but I want to corner too, not just go fast in a straight line.

Having said all that I'd buy wheels from psimet if I could. I'd trust his judgment and if he blessed a hub or rim or whatever I'd accept that.
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Old 04-13-12, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Smallguy View Post
deep race carbon race wheels....brand name or boyd,williams or psimet?
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Old 04-13-12, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Fat Boy View Post
Zipp 404's off Craigslist for $300. They're the older non-dimpled model, but they look as if they've had very few miles. If you're short on cash, look used.
+1

Second point if you're an idiot crit rider like me pancaking wheels can get expensive so look for deals where you can.
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Old 04-13-12, 09:52 AM
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I'll mention another non-name-brand vendor (local for me and I am very happy with their bike offering, just no 1st-hand experience with their carbon wheels) - November Bicycles. http://www.novemberbicycles.com/ (I don't know where they get their carbon rims - for all I know, they get their rims from the same place psimet does.)
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Old 04-13-12, 10:04 AM
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My 50mm tubular rims are 425 grams which is decent. Only ridden them a few times so far, but positive feedback from others who have them. A nice change from heavier clinchers.
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Old 04-13-12, 11:04 AM
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I'll put up another vote for get the best you can afford... but also keep an eye on the used market. I got my Easton EC90 Aero's from a trusted seller with only a couple hundred km for $800.

Turns out 56mm rims are a bit pushier in the wind than I'm comfortable with but they're still the best wheels I could've got for that much $$ so I'll deal.
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Old 04-13-12, 11:39 AM
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Old 04-13-12, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by botto View Post
You are alive...
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Old 04-13-12, 12:40 PM
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Corsa Concepts

Good wheels. More spokes than is normal, which for me being a relatively heavy sprinter is good. Makes for a stiff wheel. And they name their product after their rim depth in inches, so you know they are definitely All American. The rim is the old undimpled Zipp 404.

Full disclosure, I got these on a light discount because Corsa Concepts was sponsoring a team I used to ride for.
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Old 04-13-12, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
One thing about the brand name rims is that they're pretty light. 60mm tubulars that are 1400g. A teammate has the Williams 58s and they feel slower/heavier. He uses my Reynolds DV46s instead, and they're 1550g or so (and not very aero).

I also asked about HED's production (I have HEDs). A friend told me they are made by a good company, at least the carbon part. I don't know who makes any other rims (and I don't have any friends that can illuminate me in an unbiased way). I trust HED products is what I'm trying to say.

I also bought into the "wide is aero" if I wanted to stick with normal tubulars (21-23mm), and that was because I asked a wind tunnel guy about aero wheels (and frames and helmets and everything else I could ask). He pointed out that if I wanted to race 19mm tires that the narrow wheels would be better, but I want to corner too, not just go fast in a straight line.

Having said all that I'd buy wheels from psimet if I could. I'd trust his judgment and if he blessed a hub or rim or whatever I'd accept that.


I have Easton 58 mm carbon tubies. They are light and spin up fast. I purchased them from a trusted source and got a good price. IMO, price is a major driver for everyone. Also, the aero benefit diminishes when in the pack versus off the front and at different yaw angles. If you have the budget get the brand name stuff and do not look back. If you do not, get the best deal you can on the knock offs.

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Old 04-13-12, 01:03 PM
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What do you want out of your wheels needs to be determined first. Then maybe we can offer up ideas.
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Old 04-13-12, 01:08 PM
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I have an email into psimet I have a set from him already and love them great still true after a crash too.
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Old 04-13-12, 01:09 PM
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One thing I don't like about the Easton and Reynolds tubular wheels is that the spoke nipples are hidden, which means that you have to remove the tire to touch up the true on the wheel. Has that been an issue for you?
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Old 04-13-12, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
One thing I don't like about the Easton and Reynolds tubular wheels is that the spoke nipples are hidden, which means that you have to remove the tire to touch up the true on the wheel. Has that been an issue for you?
My nipples are hidden as well
Does that mean you don't like me?
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Old 04-13-12, 01:43 PM
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The Eastons are apparently quite robust. In ~9 months of riding and racing mine have not come the slightest bit out of true, so no issue for me yet. Also I saw a guy with the same wheels crash in a race last July and his EC90's were totally fine.
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Old 04-13-12, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
One thing I don't like about the Easton and Reynolds tubular wheels is that the spoke nipples are hidden, which means that you have to remove the tire to touch up the true on the wheel. Has that been an issue for you?
I've never been particular about my wheel trueness - you can check my wheels at the race, they're off by probably 4-5mm total.

Having said that I only had to true the DV46 once (between the clinchers and the tubulars, i.e. 2 pairs or 4 total wheels), and that was after I lent the rear wheel to a racer at Bethel. I rebuilt two wheels (front tubular rear clincher) after I broke a spoke in each. The wheels were very good overall.

With my HEDs they're not as good staying true but I haven't bothered fixing them up. Third year racing on the Stingers, and they've been raced hard.
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Old 04-13-12, 02:21 PM
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Thanks for the 'heads up'.
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