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50 miles a day for commuting

Old 04-20-12, 08:36 AM
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50 miles a day for commuting

i will start commuting beginning of summer to work on my roadie.

will a chicken and egg diet be sifficient for commuting 50 miles a day to work? also, i would like to use this opportunity as base training to help myself ride faster. will i over work my legs by the end of the summer?

thx
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Old 04-20-12, 09:06 AM
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nm, i was being a wise ass

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Old 04-20-12, 09:07 AM
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Chicken tenders and fries work for me.
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Old 04-20-12, 09:09 AM
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You'll learn real quick if you need to eat more (if it were me, I'd need more food).

Doing 50 miles day in day out will result in a phenomenal base. Combined with some faster riding on the weekends, some judicious days off, and you'll be flying in a few months.

A local guy's car broke down a few years ago. He decided to ride to/from work instead of fixing the car. 40 miles each way. It was October (in CT). He invested in lights, a lot of cold weather gear, and commuted through the winter, even riding to/from a team meeting that ended at 9 PM (and was an hour+ ride from home). He was untouchable in the March races, upgraded to Cat 2 in a few weeks.
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Old 04-20-12, 09:13 AM
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I use commuting as part of my training for racing: both base and intervals. Whether you develop fatigue or not will likely depend on how hard you push it. You will want to take some of the days at a recovery pace to avoid overtraining. If you can, you might also want to sprinkle in some total rest days. I'll typically take a shorter route, at recovery pace, after a harder day, and drive to work (using the car to bring clothes and food into the office) the day after a race.

On the diet. You are going to need something more than pure protein; specifically fat. Carbs tend to take care of themselves, but you need to focus to get a good ratio of fat and protein. During base phases, part of what you are doing is to train your body to use fat. You do that by keeping the intensity down in the "fat burning zones", but also by only giving your body fat to burn. Eating fatty proteins forces the development of the capacity to burn fat. The more fat you can burn, the longer you can go before fizzling out. You want to gradually increase the intensity at which you switch over from burning fat to burning carbs. The crossover point can be determined with metabolic testing. You want to push the crossover higher and higher. Your body has an endless supply of fat, but that is not true for Glycogen, and you can only replace the Glycogen at the rate of around 300 calories per hour. You can easily burn more than that, and so if you are relying on Glycogen, you are going to hit the wall.

On a morning commute of 25 miles, I would eat nothing before the ride, then have some fatty protein when I got to work. Nuts, avocado, good cheese, peanut butter, etc. I'd fuel the afternoon ride more, with an afternoon snack, then eat a normal dinner. During base training, for longer rides (3-6 hours) I fuel with peanut butter.

Diet needs periodization, just as training does.

My approach has made me, as our team physiologist said, "a model of metabolic efficiency". But then, my high intensity power sucks - I haven't spent as much time on that part, and getting the right balance is both science and art.
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Old 04-20-12, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing
You'll learn real quick if you need to eat more (if it were me, I'd need more food).

Doing 50 miles day in day out will result in a phenomenal base. Combined with some faster riding on the weekends, some judicious days off, and you'll be flying in a few months.

A local guy's car broke down a few years ago. He decided to ride to/from work instead of fixing the car. 40 miles each way. It was October (in CT). He invested in lights, a lot of cold weather gear, and commuted through the winter, even riding to/from a team meeting that ended at 9 PM (and was an hour+ ride from home). He was untouchable in the March races, upgraded to Cat 2 in a few weeks.
+1

I've noticed a huge difference in my endurance, strength, and speed since I started riding longer and mixing my commute by incorporating different work outs through the week. I used to ride about 30 miles to and from work but last spring I started leaving the house earlier and extending the commute so at the end of the day I'd have 40-45 miles in. The hard part is NOT riding in to work because I enjoy it so much and dread taking the bus, so I make sure to incorporate a good amount of recovery rides in.
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Old 04-20-12, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by AzTallRider
On a morning commute of 25 miles, I would eat nothing before the ride, then have some fatty protein when I got to work. Nuts, avocado, good cheese, peanut butter, etc. I'd fuel the afternoon ride more, with an afternoon snack, then eat a normal dinner. During base training, for longer rides (3-6 hours) I fuel with peanut butter.
I completely disagree with your first sentence. I eat a good breakfast, well rounded, fruits, protein, and carbs, every day. A good breakfast is essential to keeping the balance between eating and overeating in your favor.

I also commute to work, although mine is shorter. I don't do specific workouts on these rides, they are midweek base rides that can get up to high Z3 average when I'm riding the fully loaded, pannier and lights equipped CX bike, which weighs over 40 pounds loaded. For interval work, I stick to the race bike. As the season progresses, I may commute to work, ride a hammerfest or time trial after work, then ride home.
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Old 04-20-12, 10:16 AM
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+1. 30-35 miles a day was norm. I am starting to increase this to 45 miles one way occasionally now. Definitely good way to get nice base mile/endurance phase on. Only thing is, have to be careful not to over do it with extra burden on my body this way. As for chicken and egg... I think it should be fine. I am on diet that is basically reduced carb (basically reduction in processed carb or high GI carb intake) and have absolutely no issues with that 45 miles ride. Might extend that 45 miles to 70 miles on occasions when I really feel like it and work schedule is easy.
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Old 04-20-12, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by shovelhd
I completely disagree with your first sentence. I eat a good breakfast, well rounded, fruits, protein, and carbs, every day. A good breakfast is essential to keeping the balance between eating and overeating in your favor.

I also commute to work, although mine is shorter. I don't do specific workouts on these rides, they are midweek base rides that can get up to high Z3 average when I'm riding the fully loaded, pannier and lights equipped CX bike, which weighs over 40 pounds loaded. For interval work, I stick to the race bike. As the season progresses, I may commute to work, ride a hammerfest or time trial after work, then ride home.
As we have uncovered this year, breakfast is a very important part of everyone's nutrition. The reason that breakfast is so important is it fires the oven (your metabolism) for the entire day. Remember, your body has been catabolic (i.e. asleep) since about the 2.5 hour mark AFTER your last meal. This means that while you were sleeping, depending on what time you ate, rather than your body repairing itself it is using your muscles to keep itself going. Then to wake up and ride, unfueled, further damages your muscle's ability to repair itself. By taking this approach you are , in effect, doing more harm than good.

AZ by saying you are metabolically efficient I am assuming your intended pun is that you are having a difficult time leaning out, correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 04-20-12, 10:29 AM
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I think AZ means that he burns a high percentage of fat (as opposed to carbs) at moderate outputs. I do 'bonk rides' everyone once in a while (once or twice a month). I get up in the morning and have no calories (I still have my black tea) and only water with me. I then go ride 1-2 hours at anything from an endurance to SST pace. I do this to get my body to remember that it can just burn fats if it needs to. Doing one of these rides every day would not be good for me overall.

50 miles a day is completely doable, but it won't initially be easy. There will be a time from the end of the first week to, maybe the third week where your body is getting used to the miles. Once you get acclimated to it, though, you'll be dialed.
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Old 04-20-12, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by rkwaki
AZ by saying you are metabolically efficient I am assuming your intended pun is that you are having a difficult time leaning out, correct me if I am wrong.
No pun at all. When the physiologist started testing our team, most of us had focused a lot on higher intensity, and many didn't have what he calls a "metabolic equivalency point", meaning when they started pedaling at all, they were burning more carbs than fat. He had those people focus on base, and on eating fatty-protein rich diet, to push up the intensity level where they started burning more carbs than fat. Each and every one of those athletes set personal TT records once they had greater metabolic efficiancy. I wasn't tested by his group until after I had spent several weeks focused on base and diet, and so my initial test looked great. "Ready for structure" as he put it.

I have no trouble whatsover getting lean. I'm 6'6", 188#, and if I lose any more weight my wife says (jokingly, I think) that she will divorce me.
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Old 04-20-12, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Fat Boy
I think AZ means that he burns a high percentage of fat (as opposed to carbs) at moderate outputs. I do 'bonk rides' everyone once in a while (once or twice a month). I get up in the morning and have no calories (I still have my black tea) and only water with me. I then go ride 1-2 hours at anything from an endurance to SST pace. I do this to get my body to remember that it can just burn fats if it needs to. Doing one of these rides every day would not be good for me overall.
Exactly. Your supply of fat, whether you have recently eaten or not, is essentially unlimited. According to Dr. Stone (our physiologist), depriving your body of carbs encourages it to burn fat, as does feeding it fat. He conducted tests with athletes exercising while intravenous fluids were added to their systems. Adding fat increases fat burning - adding sugars increases carb use. Having the fat, and only the fat, available causes adaptation that improves your ability to burn fat. The limiting factor is the amount of O2 you can burn. You can't burn either without the O2.
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Old 04-20-12, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rkwaki
As we have uncovered this year, breakfast is a very important part of everyone's nutrition. The reason that breakfast is so important is it fires the oven (your metabolism) for the entire day. Remember, your body has been catabolic (i.e. asleep) since about the 2.5 hour mark AFTER your last meal. This means that while you were sleeping, depending on what time you ate, rather than your body repairing itself it is using your muscles to keep itself going. Then to wake up and ride, unfueled, further damages your muscle's ability to repair itself. By taking this approach you are , in effect, doing more harm than good.

AZ by saying you are metabolically efficient I am assuming your intended pun is that you are having a difficult time leaning out, correct me if I am wrong.
this is interesting to me. my training schedule is dictated by life, which dictates that my training largely be done prior to 6:15 a.m., so rolling out of bed, downing a cup of coffee and getting on the bike is my norm. i've never eaten prior to riding, usually just drink water, then eat breakfast (greek yogurt and muesli with an apple/pair/blueberries or some other fruit added + more coffee). i thought that this was considered a way for the body to more effeciently utilize glycogen stores to depletion and to then better utilize fat stores for energy. so, the opposite of what you're advocating rkwaki, but, i've noticed that about this time of year i start to crave sugars, and typically gain weight in august - october. also, this year, i'm having difficulty getting "leaned up" so to speak. although i suspect that's a dietary discipline problem, i'd love to blame my morning eating habits!

what do you recommend being eaten and how long before working out?
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Old 04-20-12, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by shovelhd
I completely disagree with your first sentence. I eat a good breakfast, well rounded, fruits, protein, and carbs, every day. A good breakfast is essential to keeping the balance between eating and overeating in your favor.
I do as well, but I delay it until after my morning ride. Part of that is to encourage the aforementioned adaptation, and part of it is mental. I like the "NILIF" (Nothing In Life Is Free) mantra, and enjoy having earned my meal. After a 1 hour commute, my meal will likely be a banana, some great aged cheddar, and whole grain crackers. If it has been a hard commute, I'll add a protein drink. After a several hour weekend ride, or a race, it will be a sausage and eggs calorie fest.

The times I have a tendency to overeat is when I'm not riding much, due to travel or whatever.
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Old 04-20-12, 11:05 AM
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I will hope that those that I have directed here will vouch for my advice as I believe that it has really helped them out this year.
Planning and organization are key to your success here. Nutrition is not defined as the hour before a ride but is on a continuous basis. Based on the fact that most of your training is done early you have to be very mindful of your diet the night before. Not knowing your diet or otherwise here are a few simple recommendations to those who train early:
Dinner the night before - good source of protein (chicken, steak) and some healthy greens, etc.
Right before you go to sleep - I have a protein shake (50 grams of protein or a little more) with ground flaxseed mixed with water
Wake-up - 3 eggs with egg whites, two slices of whole wheat toast - 1 hour before you hit the road.
Train
Within 30 minutes of workout - protein shake with 1.5 tablespoons of ground flaxseed.

Then eat every 2.5 hours until evening rolls around then repeat. You can shoot me a pm if you want me to get specific. As I have stated many times before I can guarantee that you don't eat enough protein, as protein is what repairs fatigued muscle fibers if it isn't in your diet your muscles aren't recovering properly.

Years ago someone in the industry told me if you are craving sugars you body is actually craving protein. Feed it protein and the sugar cravings go away...
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Old 04-20-12, 11:11 AM
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I have taken rkwaki's advice to add more protein to my diet and it has helped me tremendously.

AZT, I'm not saying that what you are advocating is wrong, it's just that I disagree with it. I'm 180 degrees opposite.

When I was fat, not riding my bike, and on the verge of contracting heart disease, I met with a nutritionist. Literally, the first question she asked me was "What do you eat for breakfast?". I told her a cup of tea with milk. She told me that was my first problem. Then we spent the next hour setting the groundwork for my diet going forward, without taking racing, which I would do much later, into account.
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Old 04-20-12, 11:17 AM
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rkwaki, do you agree that there is a difference between eating for performance, and eating to train? I would agree that what you are saying is spot on from a performance standpoint, but maybe not ideal for achieving optimum adaptation. When training, I'm eating for adaptation. When racing, I'm eating for performance, and will have breakfast 60-90 minutes before the race.
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Old 04-20-12, 11:20 AM
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But these are studies that are out that are showing the correlation.

Doing hard intervals is a bad idea on a bonk ride, but endurance/upper endurance efforts on a 'bonk ride' is hardly a new idea.

My question then, however, would be why not just eat fattier foods before a workout if that's the goal? Is that because you don't want to divert that much blood to digestion pre/peri workout?
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Old 04-20-12, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by shovelhd
I have taken rkwaki's advice to add more protein to my diet and it has helped me tremendously.
You guys are preaching to the choir with me when it comes to protein, but thanks for helping me realize I need to increase the protein content of my commute day breakfasts. I'll go back to adding nuts - it's just really easy to get too many calories munching nuts.
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Old 04-20-12, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche
My question then, however, would be why not just eat fattier foods before a workout if that's the goal? Is that because you don't want to divert that much blood to digestion pre/peri workout?
Personally, I do that if the ride is longer. For the shorter rides I just 'feel', rightly or wrongly, that it works well to not eat. I believe (again, rightly or wrongly) it increases my ability to use my fat reserves. With so many factors, and especially since I am new and rapidly improving, it's hard to know which things are really working.
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Old 04-20-12, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by AzTallRider
rkwaki, do you agree that there is a difference between eating for performance, and eating to train? I would agree that what you are saying is spot on from a performance standpoint, but maybe not ideal for achieving optimum adaptation. When training, I'm eating for adaptation. When racing, I'm eating for performance, and will have breakfast 60-90 minutes before the race.
Interesting question...
Not sure how to answer other than if I have a race engine I am always going to put good gas in it.
In the past I trained to race, I didn't train to train.
When I eat, my nutrition focuses on going fast, not getting lean. Getting lean is a by product of getting faster. As I have started to ride again I am down 12 pounds as I realize that some of my weight has to come off and I have been avoiding carbs and been at 300 grams of protein a day with slightly higher fat consumption. The result? Legs look completely different and have some pretty cool striations.
Point of my rant is I don't vary diet to force adaptation, I always eat for performance.
I do cheat on my diet I won't profess to be perfect but I do the best I can.

You have to really watch nuts, yes they are a good source of fat BUT you are correct very calorie dense and can add pounds pretty quickly.
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Old 04-20-12, 11:34 AM
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^lol, i just opened up the bag of cashews that keep in my desk. oh the guilt.
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Old 04-20-12, 11:36 AM
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@rkwaki - do you have a caloric mix you target? i.e. % of calories from carb/protein/fat
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Old 04-20-12, 11:46 AM
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sorry no offense but for those of you guys that have your diet to stick to and commute 2+ hours a day, how much time do you have left after work for play time?
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Old 04-20-12, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dleccord
sorry no offense but for those of you guys that have your diet to stick to and commute 2+ hours a day, how much time do you have left after work for play time?
I'm single, so I have lots of play time.
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