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Training Status??? (III)

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Training Status??? (III)

Old 12-01-14, 02:47 PM
  #12501  
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Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
That's a good simplistic approach.
I realized that (much like Matt) for me to come back for 2015 that I'll have to add a little structure due to the fact that the USA Crit/NCC guys are fast and getting faster...
But it doesn't need to be over complicated.
It will get more complicated than that, but not by a lot. When I start adding intensity, the row for one day might say something like "2-2.5 hrs Z2 w/4x10' Z4." When I want to work on pure threshold it might say "1.5 hrs Z2 w/2x20' Z4." Or if it's anaerobic recovery, "1-1.5 hr Z2 w/10x1' max." And so on and so forth.

For me, there are a couple of factors I have to consider when trying to self-coach. One is that I am training by HRM, not power, so some more complicated or precise workouts are very difficult to do because I can't target my training zones as precisely as someone with a PM. The other is my personality. I don't love suffering for the sake of suffering (read: I'm lazy) and there's only so much I can hold in my head, so I need the workouts to be easy to track but hard to cheat on. So simple is good. On top of all that, I am once again building up from a pretty low place rather than coming off a strong season, so hitting it super hard would be likely to end up with me injured or burned out very quickly. So I always need to keep an eye on that. In-season, I will often resort to racing a lot and using fast rides to maintain fitness. It's not "best practice" in terms of training science, but it helps me keep my sanity. That's become important as I've gotten into cyclocross and my racing seasons have become longer.

But just because I'm a bit lazy doesn't mean I'm not having fun when I'm out doing a specific workout. For one thing, just JRA gets pretty damn boring pretty damn fast. My biggest worry for the base season is getting motivated to build up to the big base rides I want to be doing in a few weeks. Riding long is boring in the summer and downright uncomfortable in the winter. It can be helpful to have something else to think about.

And, no matter how much you might feel that it sucks to be always riding to some kind of structured plan in training, it sucks a LOT more to spend all your races working your ass off just to hang on. Fighting for a result, whether for me or a teammate, is much more fun. And that means I have to have some kind of plan. It's worth the additional effort.
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Old 12-01-14, 02:53 PM
  #12502  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
Also, training without structure is like going to the gym and not knowing how much you're lifting during your workout. It's great cuz you feel swole 'erry day but feelings aint got much to do with how much weight you pick up and put down or making progress. Not to take a steaming dump on your romantic view of cycling and training in general, but I tried it that way and it was fun but entirely unproductive after the initial new to the sport gains.
This is important. The human body has an amazing talent for self-delusion. You might FEEL like you're flying, only to show up at an actual race and get your head kicked in. This still happens to me because I neglect my anaerobic recovery and 3-5' power zones. And that's where you're going to get hurt the most. Also, I've often found that when I'm at my fastest, I feel like ass. So there's that, too.
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Old 12-01-14, 02:53 PM
  #12503  
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We going to see you in town this spring/summer?
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Old 12-01-14, 02:57 PM
  #12504  
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Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
We going to see you in town this spring/summer?
I'm not sure. Right now we have no specific plans to be in TN until Xmas next year. But who knows? Besides, the best race I had all year was when I was visiting, so maybe I should do that again!
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Old 12-01-14, 03:06 PM
  #12505  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
The problem really is in the subtle passive aggressive thing that goes on in that particular framing. You have structure, so you can't possibly be enjoying what you're doing. Really it's a subtle form of something that looks like 'suffering isn't fun, structure means suffering, therefore structure can't be fun.' It's not a very far leap from "group rides are fun, because I can hide from the wind." For most guys who train with structure the fun part is following a plan you know is going to give you the ability to ride like you imagine you can in the time period you want to.

A lot of guys train a lot of different ways with a great deal of success.
I'm totally framing this!
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Old 12-01-14, 03:13 PM
  #12506  
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wait guys what am i doing wrong...i train by feel and always feel slow. someone help.

seriously though, I'm am planning on adding more structure to my riding throughout December and into next year. a big part of this is that i'm going to be spending a lot of time riding indoors. in years passed i've spent a lot of time doing long indoor rides and the result has been mental burnout and depression. spending 1.5-2 hours inside with some type of structure is much easier than doing a 3 hour z2/3 ride inside. are the physiological results the same? probably not, but as grumpy has brought up on here, the mental side of this sport is just as important as the physical side.
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Old 12-01-14, 03:13 PM
  #12507  
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I love me some spreadsheets. My coach, whose name is Creatre, fills in his columns with workouts and I fill in my columns with what I actually did. The two columns are loosely related. I try to do everything he prescribes in a given week, but it's a rare day when I follow the exact instructions for that day. Weather plays a big role.
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Old 12-01-14, 03:21 PM
  #12508  
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Rkwaki, that's less to do with what category one is, and more telling of what category one can become if they want to dedicate their time to structure and training.

I don't want to do that, but thankfully I have enough natural talent to still be pretty strong. I'll put in 10k miles each year without structure, that can get you pretty far, but not to the point of being competitive on an elite or National level.
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Old 12-01-14, 03:33 PM
  #12509  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
The problem really is in the subtle passive aggressive thing that goes on in that particular framing. You have structure, so you can't possibly be enjoying what you're doing. Really it's a subtle form of something that looks like 'suffering isn't fun, structure means suffering, therefore structure can't be fun.' It's not a very far leap from "group rides are fun, because I can hide from the wind." For most guys who train with structure the fun part is following a plan you know is going to give you the ability to ride like you imagine you can in the time period you want to.

A lot of guys train a lot of different ways with a great deal of success.
This post definitely needs some music to go with it.

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Old 12-01-14, 04:37 PM
  #12510  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post

A lot of guys train a lot of different ways with a great deal of success.
qft. Lots of you guys seem to like intervals, or at least like the results enough to do them. More power to you!
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Old 12-01-14, 04:38 PM
  #12511  
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
I'm totally framing this!
look at it everytime you consider making a Strava joke!!!
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Old 12-01-14, 11:36 PM
  #12512  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
look at it everytime you consider making a Strava joke!!!
Man I've been trying to think of a new Strava joke, but it's hard!
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Old 12-02-14, 08:10 AM
  #12513  
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building the engine

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Old 12-02-14, 08:21 AM
  #12514  
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Originally Posted by bmcphx View Post
These are the types of things that would ruin cycling for me. If it gets structured, it is no longer enjoyable. I want to win, but not at the cost of losing the pleasure of riding/racing.
For me, I enjoy the grind, the numbers, and the training more than the racing. It's a very to each his own kind of thing. Some riders like having 100% structure like myself, some like something in between, some like a really loose schedule. Everyone can be successful using any of the options if it is what fits them best.
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Old 12-02-14, 08:23 AM
  #12515  
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Originally Posted by Creatre View Post
For me, I enjoy the grind, the numbers, and the training more than the racing. It's a very to each his own kind of thing. Some riders like having 100% structure like myself, some like something in between, some like a really loose schedule. Everyone can be successful using any of the options if it is what fits them best.
Amen.
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Old 12-02-14, 12:07 PM
  #12516  
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FTP test this morning, at one point I actually wanted to just stop lol. 5' @ 442W and 20' @ 375W, both of which are decent improvements over my last test in August/September.
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Old 12-02-14, 01:50 PM
  #12517  
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Originally Posted by ShutUpLegs View Post
FTP test this morning, at one point I actually wanted to just stop lol. 5' @ 442W and 20' @ 375W, both of which are decent improvements over my last test in August/September.
Shutup. That is just sick. Congrats.
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Old 12-02-14, 01:54 PM
  #12518  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Shutup. That is just sick. Congrats.
Thanks Hermes! Been hitting it pretty hard before my vacation to South Africa in a couple weeks. Will be a 3 week vacation, but plan to get out a ride a handful of times to experience the area! Then when I get back, it's full bore again.
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Old 12-02-14, 02:09 PM
  #12519  
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5x10min over/under session via trainerroad
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Old 12-02-14, 02:16 PM
  #12520  
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I had a massage on Sunday and tried a new therapist from our gym. He is a trackie / ballet dancer and just started at the gym trying to build a client base. He has been helping me with my flexibility and posture during workouts. It was a tough massage i.e. more about fixing problem areas with ART therapy and working on my hips, shoulder and pecks. Among other issues, my shoulders are rolled forward with tight pecks plus the usual problems cyclists have with hips. He is really good at anatomy (I wish I were better) and what connects with what that causes problems. He gave me some homework to do for problem areas. I was not sure how I would feel on Monday after all the body work.

Monday morning I felt pretty good but my neck was a little sore but no more than other massages I have had. Massage from a quality therapist that knows cycling may be one of the most valuable assets and training / recovery techniques around.

I did a gym workout in the evening featuring upper body, core, bridges, jumping and leg strength training. I did the full set of "rubber band" walking exercises including the monster walks. And I always finish workouts with about 20 minutes of myofascial release and stretching.

Today, I feel great and ready for the trainer this PM.
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Old 12-02-14, 02:24 PM
  #12521  
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Originally Posted by ShutUpLegs View Post
FTP test this morning, at one point I actually wanted to just stop lol. 5' @ 442W and 20' @ 375W, both of which are decent improvements over my last test in August/September.
i know what your bike looks like. expect me to fight for your wheel next season
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Old 12-02-14, 02:48 PM
  #12522  
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that's a lot of numbers.

FTP test for me as well today. I think my best ever, but if not pretty darn close.
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Old 12-02-14, 03:04 PM
  #12523  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
I had a massage on Sunday and tried a new therapist from our gym. He is a trackie / ballet dancer and just started at the gym trying to build a client base. He has been helping me with my flexibility and posture during workouts. It was a tough massage i.e. more about fixing problem areas with ART therapy and working on my hips, shoulder and pecks. Among other issues, my shoulders are rolled forward with tight pecks plus the usual problems cyclists have with hips. He is really good at anatomy (I wish I were better) and what connects with what that causes problems. He gave me some homework to do for problem areas. I was not sure how I would feel on Monday after all the body work.

Monday morning I felt pretty good but my neck was a little sore but no more than other massages I have had. Massage from a quality therapist that knows cycling may be one of the most valuable assets and training / recovery techniques around.

I did a gym workout in the evening featuring upper body, core, bridges, jumping and leg strength training. I did the full set of "rubber band" walking exercises including the monster walks. And I always finish workouts with about 20 minutes of myofascial release and stretching.

Today, I feel great and ready for the trainer this PM.
I really need to see someone for this. I recently added 1-2 days of yoga per week, but my right hip flexor is just awful. I was a runner and track guy in high school and actually detatched the muscle/tore the hip flexor off in the middle of a track invite doing high jump (was so not cool) as a senior. The docs did what they could to help it heal right, but it's still a mess some 15 years later and I can really feel it after long days on the bike.
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Old 12-02-14, 03:17 PM
  #12524  
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3hrs @ 236AP/241NP (last 20min was just spinning legs out) Gettin good at this steady state stuff.
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Old 12-02-14, 04:31 PM
  #12525  
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Originally Posted by ShutUpLegs View Post
FTP test this morning, at one point I actually wanted to just stop lol. 5' @ 442W and 20' @ 375W, both of which are decent improvements over my last test in August/September.
As President for Life, do you have the authority to issue me a residency visa for Wattghanistan?
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