Creatre

Yeah, I'm still not a huge fan of the new upgrade point rules. Especially since I just got the points needed to go from 3--> 2 in 6 weeks (the new 30+ points too, not 25). I have a feeling later down the road we'll see guys upgrading that have been collecting points for a few years that don't necessarily belong at the next level. But we'll see.

johnybutts

Really curious why you think it will make a difference. If they're pack fodder in 3s, it's very unlikely they'll be anything else in the 2s.

rkwaki

They'll get in the way
From 4->3 is one thing, from 3 -> P/1/2 is another. I think the jump is considerably larger in going up from a 3.

chasm54

All this is interesting from the Brit point of view. Over here, points count only in the season in which they are earned, and one gets downgraded (down to 3, anyway - once one is out of Cat4 that is permanent) unless one gets a minimum number of points in the season. What's the rationale for the change to your system?

waterrockets 

Yep, that's why I came back to 3. Once I got up there, I lost a bunch of training time (dropped from about 8hrs/wk to 5hrs/wk). I could win 3s and 40+ on that kind of volume, but couldn't do anything at all in a P/1/2 pack with it.

rkwaki

That is the way it was for me in Canuckistan as well...

rkwaki

And WR it isn't a shot at anyone it is just being realistic...
It can be demoralizing to some guys to go from hero to zero in one weekend...

jsutkeepspining

i went from hero to hero, am i special?

rkwaki

Ooooooh you're special alright...

jsutkeepspining

like this type of special



or this kind?

rkwaki

Option 1 - https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=special



Though you do have ears like Pantani, and you are kind of a pirate...





Butt-pirate that is...


Ok I'm done, no-more derailment...

jsutkeepspining

at frist i thought you meant option one of my two options......then i clicked the link. I don't think i like you very much

waterrockets 

Yep, if I'd been smarter when I was younger, I could have upgraded much younger and ramped training. As it is, time was fleeting, and racing isn't much of a priority for me.

Creatre

You guys are scaring me! First P12 race this weekend!

I've done some P123 races though so I think it'll be OK. It's gonna be a big jump for sure though. Hopefully it won't take me too long to learn the ropes and get stronger in order to get competitive.

shovelhd

If you know what it's like at the pointy end of a P/1/2/3 race with nobody up the road, it's like that, except it's the whole field, it's faster, and it's strung out end to end longer.

Have fun. P/1/2 is my favorite brand of suffering.

jsutkeepspining

i'll say this much, the break in a 1/2/3 race is generally the same level of intensity as the break in a 1/2 race (for a small race). and just for fun and to scare a bit 320 for 2 hours on a flat crit course with a short 500 feet hill (we put in about 2 minutes into the field, and the course is 2 minutes and 10 seconds long...)

mattm

San Dimas Stage Race, Cat 2's. Started with an ~80-strong field. My first time doing this SR so not sure what to expect, but ready for anything.

Stage 1, TT: 4.25 uphill at 5% or so average. Good gawd I suck at TTs. And climbing. So this was a bad one for me. Hadn't done the GMR climb before so it was all new to me.. I did set some 3-min & 5-min power records on this climb, too bad it was the FIRST 3/5 mins.. oops. Needless to say I blew up early. Came in about 77th place, lol.

Stage 2, "RR": 56 miles, 8 laps around the course with one ~2-min climb per lap. I pre-rode the course and got dropped by a cat3 team mate who hasn't been training on the climb, so the outlook wasn't good. But I survived the race!! Each time up the climb I started mid-pack and slid towards the back, but never came too far otb to catch back on. Other parts of the race were pretty easy.

The RR course has a bunch of "road furniture" and other sketcky ****, but it was fun overall. A few small/stupid crashes in my field but nothing major.

Stage 3, 55 min crit with six turns. FUN!! Only 66 riders starting, due to time-cuts from the RR, but a big enough field to make it fun. Felt good in the race, and maintained position pretty well, but every time on the uphill backstretch there would be a reshuffling and it was hard to stay near the front. Loved all the turns tho!

Did a pull on the front to chase a 4-man break with 4 laps to go - with no team mates it might not have been a smart move, but I figured somebody had to do it and I wasn't sure what teams were in the break so didn't want to risk other teams blocking.

Was in a decent spot on the last lap, but we got swarmed and lost a few positions, damn. Coming out of the last turn some guy sat up (wtf!!) and I hard to swerve around him and then start the sprint.. passed a few guys but started too far back. 12th. Dammit, I wanted to at least crack top 10 if not win. Maybe next year.

But at least I uncorked a decent 16.6 w/kg sprint at the end of the race in the final sprint, instead of the middle of it as it sometimes happens.

Overall it was a great time, and I'll be back next year!!

Racer Ex 

You got beat by a 53 year old guy in the TT. I'll take my beer next time we're at a race together.

Good job making the time cut. 1/3 of our field didn't.

We tied in the crit finish. My teammate nearly threw away GC when he hit the barricades. I had to sit up and there went my shot.

mattm

Yeah I saw. But no fair!! How many times have you done that climb/TT?? And why didn't you win your TT??? =]

Anyway we both got beat by some Jr. that took GC in the 2's, his time was maybe three minutes less than yours.. nice views on the climb tho! (besides the smog)

Racer Ex 

A bunch. It doesn't help all that much. I got beat because the other guys were faster than me. Hey, Thurlow got 10th. FWIW Teton beat both of us too. 3's were really fast this year. He rode well.

If you keep going it gets better. I do a loop from my house that includes GMR and Glendora Ridge. I rode part of it Saturday after the crit.

I watched a little bit of your crit when I got back, Looked lively.

Jandro 

GMR and Baldy are beautiful rides. Good report, mattm.

Jancouver

San Dimas TT? You still got me beat by a few seconds ... but dont celebrate too much because I'm just a big/fat Cat 4 who cant even hang with the Cat4 field and gets dropped on the KOM every year

mattm

Maybe your problem was losing speed at the bottom, and/or being at the back of the pack at the start of the KOM climb?

The one time I was able to come in to the chicane-thingy that led to the base of the climb in the RR without braking, it was soooo much easier! The steep section felt easy with speed, and you could carry speed all the way up until the false-flat before the final kick over the bricks. The overall climb hurt me every time and sent me backwards, but I guess it was just short enough to hang on and then claw back any ground I'd lost.

I have strong cat 3 team mates that were dropped on the climb too and then cut from the race; I think they had the power to hang on but just didn't play their cards right.

grolby

Isn't a bit early for you to be getting snobbish about unworthy upgraders? If the new rules result in bad effects on upper-category racing, they'll get changed again. No big deal. There's an element of discretion from both upgrade officials and riders as well - no doubt there will be some riders who will gradually accumulate 30 points over six seasons and then immediately submit an upgrade request, but plenty of others who will recognize that it might not be a good idea. And besides, plenty of people already upgrade and downgrade depending upon whether they have the training time to be competitive. In my own case, if I continue on the kind of streak I've been on, I'm confident of being competitive in Cat 3, possibly even of being able to upgrade in a reasonable amount of time. On the other hand, without training time, I'm barely competitive in 4s, forget about higher; for most people, their ability to compete in various categories is going to vary from year to year anyway, with the different demands on their time and life. I don't see how any of that changes because of these new rules. But I'm just a newly-minted 3, so WTF do I know? Just thinking out loud.

hammy56

what about the guys who are strong enough, and skilled enough, but might only be able to race their bikes a handful of times a year?