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Base miles for cat2/3 racer with plenty of time to train.

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Base miles for cat2/3 racer with plenty of time to train.

Old 03-11-13, 02:07 PM
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JAX_11
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Base miles for cat2/3 racer with plenty of time to train.

So I have written off the rest of the early part of the racing season with hopes of having a outstanding October in floridas state championships (All in October). Started my first cat 3 season in January and races 11 races finishing 6th thru 17th.. Pretty piss pour to my standards. So I decided to give up all the great races the next 6 months and focus on sept/oct. so I am in discussions with a coach about hiring him but I want to try the Hogg volume base period for 4 months of base building and he says there won't be any 20hour weeks. That alone just about put the brakes on me hiring a coach as I want to spend the next 4 1/2 months building a monster base so that when the 2 months of build come I have a chance to make a significant not just good gain on fitness, speed and power. How is it possible to make extradonary gains without putting in that kind of mileage? I could see not needing that kind of mileage if I have years of riding under me but I'm starting my second year this month. Is it stupid to put in 20-25 hour weeks during the base, starting slowly and moving up not more than 10%-15% a week?

How many hours a week average is recommended for big gains in fitness in 6 months for a cat 3 aspiring to be a cat 2? I have the time to hit some 25hour weeks.
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Old 03-11-13, 02:20 PM
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I think you're overthinking all of this.

If you got 6th, then you maybe could've won but just didn't play your cards right.

Also, it takes more than a big base to get fast - you have to put intensity on top of that base - so wouldn't you need at least one Build period after Base?

You should just get the Friel book, ride and race as much as possible.
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Old 03-11-13, 02:38 PM
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I had about a month of base this winter before i started intervals due to a idiot crashing me and breaking my pelvic bone in 2 spots in October of last year. I am struggling to put any power, I spin twice as fast as everyone else the whole crit race because I can't produce power like the other 3s, I cconstantly get passed in the final turn when I'm 3rd wheel by 4/5 guys because I have to spin up to sprint speed while they power away. All this is besides the point I have 2 6th place finishes a 8th and a 10th.

what I'm getting at is I refuse to race the next 4-5 months and continue to get those results so I am in the process of getting a coach but I'm pretty firm on the fact I want to build a monster base that wil top out at 25-30 hours before he starts the build 1 and build 2 phases. He telling me we won't come close to 20 hour training weeks. I have friels book. I plan is to spend the next 6 months training and away from Florida racing so that in October I can show up and have a outstanding Brooksville P1/2/3 race followed by state championship road race and I'm willing to sacrifice racing any races that will interfere with that goal. The races I'm training for are 70miles

Last edited by JAX_11; 03-11-13 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 03-11-13, 02:49 PM
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Coming back from injury sucks. When I was injured over the winter a few years ago, coming back to racing really sucked - at first. But after a few months of racing & training I was back at it, and winning 3's races again. Which is why I'm saying just keep racing.

I don't think you or any other cat 3 needs to do 20+ hour weeks, but I guess you could..

And, I don't think your plan of just "showing up" will work out all that well, against people that have been racing all season. There is no fitness like race fitness..

Just my $0.02. Good luck.
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Old 03-11-13, 02:58 PM
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What's the point of hiring a coach if you've already decided what your training plan will be?
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Old 03-11-13, 03:05 PM
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I haven't I just made it a point to him that I want to do high mileage base training. Between June and September there is a split in the Florida season with no races, so no one else will be coming in with any race fitness either. Ill do a couple a couple weekends of races in September during the build. What I'm getting at is that the amount of base mileage is gonna be a sticking point between hiring a coach or not racing the rest of the year as shooting for 2014. 4 month base/ 2 month build / 2 weeks for peak and then 2 A race weekends is what has been discussed.
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Old 03-11-13, 03:07 PM
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Maybe racing this year at all is a bad idea since they will all have race fitness and I refuse to show up to cat3 races and produce the same results I have this year already.
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Old 03-11-13, 03:07 PM
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i would say race your bike....but what do i know
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Old 03-11-13, 03:08 PM
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seriously, it doesn't take unbelievable power to win or do well in a race, it takes racing skill, something you will not gain from juust doing huge miles.


edit: especially in the lower cats

Last edited by jsutkeepspining; 03-11-13 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 03-11-13, 03:16 PM
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You're finishing top 10. That means your competitive.

Racing more , you'll learn more, and get stronger as well.

Race, learn, identify strengths, weaknesses. Race strengths, Train weaknesses.
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Old 03-11-13, 03:23 PM
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If you're in your second year, the race experience is likely more valuable than piling on huge base miles for a relatively short period of time. The thing about base miles is that it isn't just how much time per week you put in, but how many weeks you put in. No matter how many miles you pile on in a given week, it is still just one week. And if you are doing that many miles, your CTL will be through the roof... so how do you build up from that? You want a CTL that is increasing as you hit your racing season, right?

Take this with a grain of salt. I have a coach, and I do what he says, because I recognize I know very little, especially in comparison with his vast, up-to-date, and insightful knowledge and expertise...
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Old 03-11-13, 03:33 PM
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I'm not saying do 30 hours in one week of base training then jump into intervals.


4 months of base gradually building up to 30hours a week then go into 2 months of build 1 and build 2.
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Old 03-11-13, 03:34 PM
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i'm jsut saying i think you're missing out on the type of thing that will make you a better racer. There are quite a few guys who are as strong as me, but i could whoop them in a race any day.
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Old 03-11-13, 03:36 PM
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I don't get the goal or the point of this. Another case of over thinking.
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Old 03-11-13, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JAX_11 View Post
I'm not saying do 30 hours in one week of base training then jump into intervals.


4 months of base gradually building up to 30hours a week then go into 2 months of build 1 and build 2.
Maybe if you did 40 hours/week you could probably just skip the 2's and go straight to 1.
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Old 03-11-13, 03:43 PM
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hahahahahhahhahaha

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Old 03-11-13, 03:43 PM
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To build a monster endurance base to give me a fighting shot at having a chance to podium in the cat 3 road race that is combined with p1/2/3 but scored separately. I see Steven peruezula putting in 30-40 hour weeks when he was a 3 2 years ago and he rode away from everyone in every race and is doing it as a cat1. He trains for ram, he doesn't give a crap about crits just like I don't. I wouldn't shed a tier if there was never a another crit race and they were all 70-100 mile road races. That's what I want to be good at. The obsession with miles is also because I wanna do gila next year but need super mileage to do it. I was gonna do it this year but realized how under mileage s I'd be. It's a build up to next year
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Old 03-11-13, 03:44 PM
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Get a little more positive about your results. Honestly with the way your posts sound I wouldn't be surprised if you burn out and not ever touch a bike again after a few weeks of a high volume schedule.

You are putting too much thought into it. Bike racing is about enjoying the biking and the racing. Just finish off the spring season, get as much racing experience as you can. Try to be like a cat5 again and set a goal for each race, attack from the gun, pack surf, etc. Get a coach, and follow his advice. You can read all of these theories online, but coaches are coaches for a reason. It's likely whatever he's prescribing will be pretty darn good and get you to the next level.

2 or 3 months of consistent work will provide a good fitness bump. But you need to improve your attitude. And at cat 3, I would not put all your eggs in one month's basket, especially when you are just trying to get points. What happens if someone wrecks you and you have a broken pelvis after your first race in October? Bummer.
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Old 03-11-13, 03:46 PM
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**** i would last at most 1 week of 40 hours, that's just silly high. I also think 30 is stupid high. i like 15-20 as a nice big week for the sole reason that i can do that consistantly.
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Old 03-11-13, 03:48 PM
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Good grief, you're getting top-tens and think you need to go to 30-hour weeks to reach the podium? You're just going to kill yourself from fatigue and be even more disappointed when you don't get the result you want at states.

Originally Posted by JAX_11 View Post
To build a monster endurance base to give me a fighting shot at having a chance to podium in the cat 3 road race that is combined with p1/2/3 but scored separately. I see Steven peruezula putting in 30-40 hour weeks when he was a 3 2 years ago and he rode away from everyone in every race and is doing it as a cat1.
...And the possibility that he's just a hell of a lot more talented than you and everyone else he races against hasn't occurred to you as an explanation?

Originally Posted by JAX_11 View Post
He trains for ram, he doesn't give a crap about crits just like I don't. I wouldn't shed a tier if there was never a another crit race and they were all 70-100 mile road races. That's what I want to be good at. The obsession with miles is also because I wanna do gila next year but need super mileage to do it. I was gonna do it this year but realized how under mileage s I'd be. It's a build up to next year
It sounds like you NEED to race crits so that you can learn how to race more effectively.
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Old 03-11-13, 03:54 PM
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Racing is training. There I said it.
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Old 03-11-13, 03:55 PM
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Crit racing in Florida is the biggest joke when it comes to cycling. South Florida guys that should be pros racing as cat 4s cause try come from another country. 30-40 people trying to kill each other in every turn just to move up one spot. Not worth it. Guess I grew up in the wrong country cause to me when I think of cycling I think 100mile races climbing attacks on climbs. Not riding around in circles for a hour where the sprinter almost always wins in florida. If I only do 5 or 6 weekends next year it will be races like gila, cascades, anything that is long and hills.
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Old 03-11-13, 03:58 PM
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also one last thing, i normally see people hating on crits when they have not raced enough, or understand how to race. Crits aren't about pure power unless you're riding solo otf, you need to know how to read the race and conserve energy.

jax: here's my honest opinion on you, you might not suck, you might not be a terrible cyclist, but you sure as hell need to work on being a racer simple as that.
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Old 03-11-13, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by JAX_11 View Post
Crit racing in Florida is the biggest joke when it comes to cycling. South Florida guys that should be pros racing as cat 4s cause try come from another country. 30-40 people trying to kill each other in every turn just to move up one spot. Not worth it. Guess I grew up in the wrong country cause to me when I think of cycling I think 100mile races climbing attacks on climbs. Not riding around in circles for a hour where the sprinter almost always wins in florida. If I only do 5 or 6 weekends next year it will be races like gila, cascades, anything that is long and hills.
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Old 03-11-13, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JAX_11 View Post
Crit racing in Florida is the biggest joke when it comes to cycling. South Florida guys that should be pros racing as cat 4s cause try come from another country. 30-40 people trying to kill each other in every turn just to move up one spot. Not worth it. Guess I grew up in the wrong country cause to me when I think of cycling I think 100mile races climbing attacks on climbs. Not riding around in circles for a hour where the sprinter almost always wins in florida. If I only do 5 or 6 weekends next year it will be races like gila, cascades, anything that is long and hills.
"I don't know how to race my bike and I am uninterested in learning." That's what I just read.

In all seriousness, this is a really self-defeating attitude. You aren't open to learning because you think you already know what it's all about. But circuit racing is common in the heartlands of cycling as well.
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