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Stage race strategy with TT on same day

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Stage race strategy with TT on same day

Old 03-12-13, 08:47 PM
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Stage race strategy with TT on same day

I'm doing my first stage race this weekend - Fayetteville, TX - 35+ CAT 4/5

46 mile RR and 8.9 mile TT on the first day.

I'll have several hours of rest between the RR and TT, but wondering how much I should try to minimize my effort in the RR to save my legs for the TT. My base fitness is poor right now, so I think the RR effort could certainly affect my TT performance.

I normally ride a RR near the front and follow a bunch of stuff up the road hoping to make something stick. I've had good luck getting into successful breaks, but I'm wondering how high the chances are for a successful break with people not wanting to waste their legs with the TT later in the day. If people in the break are trying to save legs, it's doomed for failure. But I'm thinking people in the pack may not want to chase for the same reason (but they can see the time going up the road, so maybe less likely?). Is there any rule of thumb for this or should I just go with the flow? I'm thinking I might just mark a couple of the guys I know are strong (with the help of a teammate) and only go if they go and try to ride conservative otherwise.

I am not going to compete for the time bonuses in a field sprint, so my only likely chances for time are in a break or in the TT. It's only my second TT, but I'm feeling pretty good about that (ignorance is bliss). Not sure how agressive to be in the RR on Saturday.
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Old 03-12-13, 09:02 PM
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Personally, I would ride the RR for the best placing possible, and then worry about the TT. You will learn more and have more fun.
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Old 03-12-13, 11:19 PM
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race the road race to win (or to the best of your ability). don't "save something" for the TT. chances are whatever you think you are saving will not materialize in the TT.

a 46-mile RR is ~2h? an 8.9-mile TT is ~17-20 minutes?

since it is a stage race, no one's legs will be absolutely fresh when they hit the TT later in the day, so you are not at a relative disadvantage. unless you went on some insane solo breakaway from the gun you will have plenty of gas to handle an 17-20 minute effort.

just be sure to hydrate and have your recovery drink ready as soon as you finish the RR. don't linger -- get busy resting and get your TT gear ready. resist the urge to chat with your fellow racers; save that for after the final stage. maybe drink/eat a bit more than you normally might DURING the R, as it will reduce the damage for your afternoon TT and the next day's racing.

it's your first stage race -- enjoy the experience. they are amazing!

Originally Posted by grwoolf
I'm doing my first stage race this weekend - Fayetteville, TX - 35+ CAT 4/5

46 mile RR and 8.9 mile TT on the first day.
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Old 03-13-13, 12:09 AM
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Having won that race twice along with 4 stages I require a large fee before I dispense advice.

PM me for my PayPal address.

Race your bike. Let a break go that gets two minutes and unless you're a TT stud you're not getting that back. I won the TT 3x and my biggest margin was less than a minute.
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Old 03-13-13, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by grwoolf
I'm doing my first stage race this weekend - Fayetteville, TX - 35+ CAT 4/5

46 mile RR and 8.9 mile TT on the first day.

I'll have several hours of rest between the RR and TT, but wondering how much I should try to minimize my effort in the RR to save my legs for the TT. My base fitness is poor right now, so I think the RR effort could certainly affect my TT performance.

I normally ride a RR near the front and follow a bunch of stuff up the road hoping to make something stick. I've had good luck getting into successful breaks, but I'm wondering how high the chances are for a successful break with people not wanting to waste their legs with the TT later in the day. If people in the break are trying to save legs, it's doomed for failure. But I'm thinking people in the pack may not want to chase for the same reason (but they can see the time going up the road, so maybe less likely?). Is there any rule of thumb for this or should I just go with the flow? I'm thinking I might just mark a couple of the guys I know are strong (with the help of a teammate) and only go if they go and try to ride conservative otherwise.

I am not going to compete for the time bonuses in a field sprint, so my only likely chances for time are in a break or in the TT. It's only my second TT, but I'm feeling pretty good about that (ignorance is bliss). Not sure how agressive to be in the RR on Saturday.
I concur with all the others. I will be out there as well, racing 3/4s. I'll be in a bright green/black THC kit riding a matching cannondale. Hit me up, I love meeting BF.net folks.
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Old 03-13-13, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by johnybutts
I concur with all the others. I will be out there as well, racing 3/4s. I'll be in a bright green/black THC kit riding a matching cannondale. Hit me up, I love meeting BF.net folks.
Careful I think jb is looking for a bf.net hookup...
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Old 03-13-13, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by johnybutts
I concur with all the others. I will be out there as well, racing 3/4s. I'll be in a bright green/black THC kit riding a matching cannondale. Hit me up, I love meeting BF.net folks.
I'll be there as well.
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Old 03-13-13, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by rkwaki
Careful I think jb is looking for a bf.net hookup...
as long as there's some licking involved...
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Old 03-13-13, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by johnybutts
as long as there's some licking involved...
Nevermind, I won't be there.
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Old 03-13-13, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Nate552
Nevermind, I won't be there.
Tough to keep up with this group...
Salty sweet...
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Old 03-13-13, 07:55 AM
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Fayetteville will also be my debut appearance at a stage race. I'll be in the 4/5. A friend and I are camping at the lake. Weather is looking great!
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Old 03-13-13, 02:33 PM
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I'll be there as well this weekend. Please be sure to print out a name tag with your screen name and avatar so I know who you fuggers are.
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Old 03-13-13, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Dolamite02
I'll be there as well this weekend. Please be sure to print out a name tag with your screen name and avatar so I know who you fuggers are.
Nate's easy. Just look for the TT winner.
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Old 03-13-13, 07:46 PM
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Thanks for the feedback, I'll try not to let anything up the road and stay somewhat aggressive. I think I'm over-focusing on the TT since it's such a new thing for me and I'm hoping I can get some results there.

Originally Posted by tetonrider
....a 46-mile RR is ~2h? an 8.9-mile TT is ~17-20 minutes? ....
I couldn't find the actual results from last year, but found some strava numbers from last year that would indicate anything under 19 minutes would be elite and under 20 minutes would probably win my category (35+ 4/5's). I'm shooting for sub 21 minute and I think that would put me in the mix.

Originally Posted by johnybutts
I concur with all the others. I will be out there as well, racing 3/4s. I'll be in a bright green/black THC kit riding a matching cannondale. Hit me up, I love meeting BF.net folks.
I'll look for you. I'll be in a Brain and Spine kit riding a black specialized (tarmac or shiv). So will my teammate, but his bikes are both s-works, mine are just "regular"

Originally Posted by Racer Ex
Nate's easy. Just look for the TT winner.
What category? I've got a couple teammates that I hope have a decent shot at the TT in their categories (40+ and 35+). The 35+ guy is also new to TT's (this will be his second TT as well), but he is a beast and did a <1 hour 40k in his first TT last summer.

Any tips on the TT course? I have not been able to pre-ride it and it sounds like they don't allow people to pre-ride the day of the race. It looks like smallish rollers and the last 4 miles will be straight into a 13mph headwind if the forecast is correct.
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Old 03-13-13, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by grwoolf
Any tips on the TT course?
350/375/400 on the 3 legs.
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Old 03-13-13, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Racer Ex
350/375/400 on the 3 legs.
That would probably do it.

Should I really hold back until the final leg or do I need the paypal account for that level of insight?
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Old 03-13-13, 08:07 PM
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pfff only 350/370/400? i mean even rkwaki can do more than that, and he's jsut a fat cat 6
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Old 03-13-13, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by grwoolf
That would probably do it.

Should I really hold back until the final leg...
Headwind is the same as a climb. If you did a TT where the last four miles was uphill, what do you think the most effective way to ride it would be?

a) Go out hard and die on the climb
b) Save something then kill it on the "long" section.

Pretty simple.

Go off my numbers as percentages of your own. Unless you answered "a".
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Old 03-13-13, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Racer Ex
Headwind is the same as a climb. If you did a TT where the last four miles was uphill, what do you think the most effective way to ride it would be?

a) Go out hard and die on the climb
b) Save something then kill it on the "long" section.

Pretty simple.

Go off my numbers as percentages of your own. Unless you answered "a".
Thanks. I get the concept of holding a bit back on the early tailwind sections, but having some example numbers really help. I would not have thought to hold that much back early. Given your example, I assume I should target the last leg to be about 5-7% above what I could hold for a ~20 minute steady state interval?

Also, on rolling hills, I feel I should be powering over them a bit (10-15% surge with a little recovery over the top) rather than keeping steady state. I tend to do this more with a tail wind where I feel the need to keep momentum. Is this a good aproach or should I keep it more steady? Thanks for the help, I'll paypal you half of my winnings this weekend...
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Old 03-14-13, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by grwoolf

Also, on rolling hills, I feel I should be powering over them a bit (10-15% surge with a little recovery over the top) rather than keeping steady state. I tend to do this more with a tail wind where I feel the need to keep momentum. Is this a good aproach or should I keep it more steady? Thanks for the help, I'll paypal you half of my winnings this weekend...
That's about right.
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Old 03-14-13, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Racer Ex
350/375/400 on the 3 legs.
Knock off ~200 watts from those and there's my strategy.

Last edited by Nate552; 03-14-13 at 07:09 AM.
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Old 03-14-13, 07:06 AM
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My wife is going to race Fville for the first time this year. She has really taken to training and racing, but she is nervous about the distance (women race 40+ miles both days). We were talking about the TT last night and she asked, "So should I shoot for my threshold watts in the TT or just over?"
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Old 03-14-13, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Nate552
My wife is going to race Fville for the first time this year. She has really taken to training and racing, but she is nervous about the distance (women race 40+ miles both days). We were talking about the TT last night and she asked, "So should I shoot for my threshold watts in the TT or just over?"
awesome
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Old 03-14-13, 08:15 AM
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I would say in addition to re-fueling asap and resting get plenty of easy spin before the TT, I was able to ride to the TT and the 20+ minute ride there seemed to help immensly. What did not is that I left so fast after the RR to go home and rest that I did not realize I needed to wait for a start time, which I missed and ended up with a 45 minute 7 mile TT but still got points because very few did the TT.
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Old 03-14-13, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Nate552
My wife is going to race Fville for the first time this year. She has really taken to training and racing, but she is nervous about the distance (women race 40+ miles both days). We were talking about the TT last night and she asked, "So should I shoot for my threshold watts in the TT or just over?"
Talk dirty to me...
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