Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

Thoughts on these power numbers for Cat4? (road racing / crits )

Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Thoughts on these power numbers for Cat4? (road racing / crits )

Old 04-15-13, 11:12 AM
  #51  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 898
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by jsutkeepspining
easy plan for you to follow in the coming weeks if you aint racing

monday: hour easy
tueday: 5x5's 110-120% of ftp
wednesday 6x5x1 at 105-108% or 2x20's at 95-100%
thursday: 3 hours at .7 IF
friday hour easy
saturday: 3 hours w/ 2x20's at sst at the end of the ride
sunday: 4 hours z2

enjoy
Who has this much time to train?!?! Guess that is why I can't get out of the 4s....

Looks like I fall into the Woman's Cat 5 on that graph..pretty sweet numbers I have.
zigmeister is offline  
Old 04-15-13, 11:21 AM
  #52  
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ohioland/right near hicville farmtown
Posts: 4,813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
that's actually not that much

edit: but in all actuality, you probably only need to train 5-10 hours to get out of the 4's. 3 hard days and one 2 hour ride and your set really.
jsutkeepspining is offline  
Old 04-15-13, 12:48 PM
  #53  
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,170

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 38 Posts
Originally Posted by ovoleg
So what do you guys recommend a good workout for treshold work. The pyramid or the tempo for 1 hour? Also how many times a week would you recommend doing it...1-2 days? Should I maybe just start off by doing tempo for 30min then recover for 10 then another 30mins then recover for another 10?
This....

Originally Posted by shovelhd
I would work on recovery after efforts and FTP. And don't underestimate what 2 hours at tempo will do to you. It's a beeeatch.
Tempo stuff is SO freaking effective. Other than that, go look at the recipe thread and experiment a bit. Generally, make sure you are getting a mix of push and pull-type threshold work in. The tempo stuff is push (pushes threshold up from below). ZCI™s are pull, and they are great too, but there are dozens of effective workouts. Depends on your courses vs. trainer, weather, hills, wind, level of focus, time to train, etc.

Originally Posted by ovoleg
For the 1min power I took that off of a climb that I went really hard for 2'ish mins. I just took the garmin connect file and did 1min max. Should I try to do this on the flats instead?
A 1' test is all-out every pedal stroke, from the gun. You should get really close to your 5" power in the first 5". You should be setting power records at 20", 30", and 45" on the way to 60". Push through to 1:05 or so to make sure you have the best minute in there that you can do. Most importantly though: do not pace at all. Just go all-out like you're trying to break something.

Coming into a mild hill is a good course for me. I get to enjoy the acceleration for the first 10", and that keeps my sprint as part of the test. The hill then keeps a cap on my speed so I'm not fighting any feelings of spinning out.
waterrockets is offline  
Old 04-15-13, 01:30 PM
  #54  
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Posts: 13,089
Mentioned: 158 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by shovelhd
"Tight protocol" means, among other things:

Repeatable course
Same time of day
Similar atmospheric conditions
Precise warmup and test cycle

Grabbing junk off of Strava is just that, junk.
This.

There's a ton of noise in other data.
Racer Ex is offline  
Old 04-15-13, 01:52 PM
  #55  
Powered by Borscht
Thread Starter
 
ovoleg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 8,342

Bikes: Russian Vodka

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How do you guys feel about riding 6-7 days a week using 1-2 of those days as active recovery in Z1? Or should I just take the day off?
ovoleg is offline  
Old 04-15-13, 01:58 PM
  #56  
Senior Member
 
Jancouver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ovoleg
How do you guys feel about riding 6-7 days a week using 1-2 of those days as active recovery in Z1? Or should I just take the day off?
IMO if you are new to racing take a day off. My personal issue was learning how to go easy on easy days without doing too much ... by chasing carrots or dropping those who just passed me
Jancouver is offline  
Old 04-15-13, 02:07 PM
  #57  
Powered by Borscht
Thread Starter
 
ovoleg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 8,342

Bikes: Russian Vodka

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jancouver
IMO if you are new to racing take a day off. My personal issue was learning how to go easy on easy days without doing too much ... by chasing carrots or dropping those who just passed me
I have no problems going slow . I was going to do it just to keep weight down and burn a few cals slowly. Didn't plan on hammering.
ovoleg is offline  
Old 04-15-13, 04:03 PM
  #58  
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The harder you train, the more rest becomes important. If you have weight problems, deal with them another way.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 04-15-13, 05:08 PM
  #59  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: New England
Posts: 797

Bikes: 2010 Jamis Xenith Comp

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by waterrockets
A 1' test is all-out every pedal stroke, from the gun. You should get really close to your 5" power in the first 5". You should be setting power records at 20", 30", and 45" on the way to 60". Push through to 1:05 or so to make sure you have the best minute in there that you can do. Most importantly though: do not pace at all. Just go all-out like you're trying to break something.
curious - is this how you do your trademarked intervals, too? or do you actually try to pace those a little?
climber7 is offline  
Old 04-15-13, 05:54 PM
  #60  
Genetics have failed me
 
Scummer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Zorneding, Germany
Posts: 3,057

Bikes: Norwid Aaland, Radon Slide 140, Elom 505 Titan, Dahon mju, Pedalforce CX1, Battaglin Power+, Old MTB and lots of spare parts

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by climber7
curious - is this how you do your trademarked intervals, too? or do you actually try to pace those a little?
The WRI[TM] are all out, balls to the walls, leave no man standing, last 15 seconds you want to die, leave no stone unturned exercises.
__________________
Gelato aficionado.
Scummer is offline  
Old 04-15-13, 09:17 PM
  #61  
Powered by Borscht
Thread Starter
 
ovoleg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 8,342

Bikes: Russian Vodka

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by waterrockets
This....



Tempo stuff is SO freaking effective. Other than that, go look at the recipe thread and experiment a bit. Generally, make sure you are getting a mix of push and pull-type threshold work in. The tempo stuff is push (pushes threshold up from below). ZCI™s are pull, and they are great too, but there are dozens of effective workouts. Depends on your courses vs. trainer, weather, hills, wind, level of focus, time to train, etc.



A 1' test is all-out every pedal stroke, from the gun. You should get really close to your 5" power in the first 5". You should be setting power records at 20", 30", and 45" on the way to 60". Push through to 1:05 or so to make sure you have the best minute in there that you can do. Most importantly though: do not pace at all. Just go all-out like you're trying to break something.

Coming into a mild hill is a good course for me. I get to enjoy the acceleration for the first 10", and that keeps my sprint as part of the test. The hill then keeps a cap on my speed so I'm not fighting any feelings of spinning out.
ok will do thanks man. Do you recommend just a long'ish ride at tempo or doing tempo intervals?
ovoleg is offline  
Old 04-15-13, 10:30 PM
  #62  
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,170

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 38 Posts
Both. You need to be patient and see what works and what doesn't, for you. We're all different.
waterrockets is offline  
Old 04-15-13, 10:33 PM
  #63  
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,170

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 38 Posts
Originally Posted by climber7
curious - is this how you do your trademarked intervals, too? or do you actually try to pace those a little?
The intervals have the same profile, but not the same power as the test. So, rather than pacing by choosing a wattage to hold, or a %of FTP, I end up with a steady RPE, and I'd say it's RPE 9-9.5 for the intervals. Starts off with a serious sprint and the effort stays constant. No power records will be set, but it's not paced in the traditional sense.

I'm doing these to train for the all-out efforts that I try to use for race finishes, as that profile is most useful for getting a gap and keeping speed up as much as possible to delay being caught by the sprinters.
waterrockets is offline  
Old 04-16-13, 07:53 AM
  #64  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Scummer
The WRI[TM] are all out, balls to the walls, leave no man standing, last 15 seconds you want to die, leave no stone unturned exercises.
I like going by distance, not time. I find I push myself harder because I know then I'll get done a few seconds sooner. It's also easier to see a signpost or a building than it is to read little itty bitty numbers when your legs feel like they're being dynamited, your eyes are bleeding, and your heart and lungs feel like they're going to climb up out of your throat and beat you about the head for abusing them so badly.

One KM is good.

One mile is utter hell.
achoo is offline  
Old 04-16-13, 07:58 AM
  #65  
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,170

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 38 Posts
Originally Posted by achoo
I like going by distance, not time. I find I push myself harder because I know then I'll get done a few seconds sooner. It's also easier to see a signpost or a building than it is to read little itty bitty numbers when your legs feel like they're being dynamited, your eyes are bleeding, and your heart and lungs feel like they're going to climb up out of your throat and beat you about the head for abusing them so badly.

One KM is good.

One mile is utter hell.
If you're doing a mile un-paced, all-out, you might as well finish off the full 3 minutes and get an FTP number out of the deal.
waterrockets is offline  
Old 04-16-13, 08:48 AM
  #66  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,840
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
having been guilty of it numerous times throughout my racing career, i believe that doing tempo during the race season is bad training strategy, and a recipe for training moderately, aka making your hard rides not hard enough and your ez rides too hard ... unless it's H.O.P. style (hard tempo with sprints/accelerations every 3 to 5 minutes, which in actuality is a neuromuscular power workout that forces you into an AP/NP in L4).

disclaimers/ymmv
MDcatV is offline  
Old 04-16-13, 08:52 AM
  #67  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by waterrockets
If you're doing a mile un-paced, all-out, you might as well finish off the full 3 minutes and get an FTP number out of the deal.
Ouch. All the pain of a 20-min FTP test crammed into three minutes?

Well, there's two reasons, for me at least, for not doing those:

1. I plateaued at "sucky-slow" last year so I hired a coach and he doesn't have me doing those, or anyting like those, probably because I'm already a pretty good sprinter and need to work on other things, like FTP, weight, and anaerobic capacity/repeatability.

2. One mile is already utter hell.
achoo is offline  
Old 04-16-13, 09:07 AM
  #68  
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,402
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1099 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 30 Posts
Originally Posted by MDcatV
having been guilty of it numerous times throughout my racing career, i believe that doing tempo during the race season is bad training strategy, and a recipe for training moderately, aka making your hard rides not hard enough and your ez rides too hard ... unless it's H.O.P. style (hard tempo with sprints/accelerations every 3 to 5 minutes, which in actuality is a neuromuscular power workout that forces you into an AP/NP in L4).

disclaimers/ymmv
hmmm.. damn.

I should stop doing those tempo rides prolly.
__________________
cat 1.

my race videos
mattm is offline  
Old 04-16-13, 09:29 AM
  #69  
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by MDcatV
having been guilty of it numerous times throughout my racing career, i believe that doing tempo during the race season is bad training strategy, and a recipe for training moderately, aka making your hard rides not hard enough and your ez rides too hard ... unless it's H.O.P. style (hard tempo with sprints/accelerations every 3 to 5 minutes, which in actuality is a neuromuscular power workout that forces you into an AP/NP in L4).

disclaimers/ymmv
Yeah. It depends. If it's unstructured, and you are on a structured program, then not so smart. I would get yelled at if I did that. As part of a program though, why not? Not everyone starts the racing season with just the right amount of base fitness. Sometimes life gets in the way. So we have to do base, build, and race at the same time. Not optimal, but reality often isn't.
shovelhd is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mahelle
Mountains-Plains Regional Rides and Events
0
07-19-19 08:28 AM
topflightpro
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing
22
09-02-16 10:18 AM
tannermcfarlin1
Road Cycling
9
08-14-14 09:12 PM
BikeNube
Road Cycling
163
01-17-11 11:25 AM
SpongeDad
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing
87
05-27-10 10:31 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.