Wheel advice (not which wheel should I buy)
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Wheel advice (not which wheel should I buy)
2014 will be my first season of racing. I will be trying criteriums, road races and time trials. I am looking for advise on what to look for in a wheelset that I can ride for all three. Keep in mind that one of the TT's I will be riding under Eddie Merckx rules which are nothing over 30mm. Thanks in advice. (oh and in case the budget question comes up, I want to keep it under $500.00)
#2
out walking the earth
so, not which wheel you should buy, but which wheelset you should buy.
color me confused.
color me confused.
#3
Making a kilometer blurry
Not more than 30mm? Tough to go wrong a set of Kinlin XR-300 hoops with Sapim CX-Ray spokes, and your favorite hubs. (for me, it's Alchemy Elf up front and PowerTap in the back)
Really though, you've got bigger issues in your first season than wheel selection.
Really though, you've got bigger issues in your first season than wheel selection.
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#5
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Doesn't really matter but if you can only go to 30mm than I would get some variant in 30mm. Granted, I wouldn't let one TT dictate which wheelset I could get.
#6
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If you're thinking of racing in 2014 then presumably you have a bike. If you're looking for wheels then presumably you have not-so-aero wheels on that presumed bike.
If the wheels on that bike are 30mm or shorter than get some big aero wheels to compliment the non-aero wheels. Too many people buy a second set of wheels that are much like the first set they have - the gains are minimal and you don't notice much of a difference. Get a wheel set that is totally different and you'll notice a difference. There's a lot of potential for debate here on what to buy so I won't go into details but an all purpose wheel set would be good, 50-70mm tall rims, etc. It's really up to you. Your budget implies that you might be better off spending your money on fit stuff (bar/stem/saddle/post), pedals/shoes, clothing, maintenance, entry fees, etc.
If the wheels on that bike are over 30mm tall then think about how important that Merckx TT is. If it's really important then look for a sub-30mm rim wheel set. If not then see the above statement.
If you don't have a bike or you don't have wheels then get some wheels that are under 30 mm tall.
For TT stuff I think, but I can't prove (someone will pipe up though if I bring it up) that lower spoke counts are pretty significant. I've used the HED Ardennes rimmed wheels which are about 24mm tall. They're strong enough that I can run 18/24 spoke, which is how they came from HED. The aero difference between such a rim and a 30mm tall rim is going to be negligible. Get a good, light, reliable low-height-rim wheel set.
If you're really hard up then see if there are racers in the area selling off their stock/OEM wheel sets. I know that there'd be a few wheel sets available in my area just from teammates alone. Usually you can get these wheels for dirt cheap.
If the wheels on that bike are 30mm or shorter than get some big aero wheels to compliment the non-aero wheels. Too many people buy a second set of wheels that are much like the first set they have - the gains are minimal and you don't notice much of a difference. Get a wheel set that is totally different and you'll notice a difference. There's a lot of potential for debate here on what to buy so I won't go into details but an all purpose wheel set would be good, 50-70mm tall rims, etc. It's really up to you. Your budget implies that you might be better off spending your money on fit stuff (bar/stem/saddle/post), pedals/shoes, clothing, maintenance, entry fees, etc.
If the wheels on that bike are over 30mm tall then think about how important that Merckx TT is. If it's really important then look for a sub-30mm rim wheel set. If not then see the above statement.
If you don't have a bike or you don't have wheels then get some wheels that are under 30 mm tall.
For TT stuff I think, but I can't prove (someone will pipe up though if I bring it up) that lower spoke counts are pretty significant. I've used the HED Ardennes rimmed wheels which are about 24mm tall. They're strong enough that I can run 18/24 spoke, which is how they came from HED. The aero difference between such a rim and a 30mm tall rim is going to be negligible. Get a good, light, reliable low-height-rim wheel set.
If you're really hard up then see if there are racers in the area selling off their stock/OEM wheel sets. I know that there'd be a few wheel sets available in my area just from teammates alone. Usually you can get these wheels for dirt cheap.
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"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
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Ride your stock wheels for the Merckx TT and the to be purchased new or used deeper section wheels (>58 mm) for the other TTs, RRs and crits. Refer to CDR's response.
My experience in Cat 5 was that wheel set selection did not make a difference for me in crit and road race results but I am a believer in paying attention to details and taking advantage of incremental improvements - including wheel selection. It is more fun and if I think I am faster, then I am faster.
My experience in Cat 5 was that wheel set selection did not make a difference for me in crit and road race results but I am a believer in paying attention to details and taking advantage of incremental improvements - including wheel selection. It is more fun and if I think I am faster, then I am faster.
#9
commu*ist spy
I'm thinking about upgrading wheels too. But I'm thinking about gettng it from overseas for a lot cheaper, after doing my homework on their built quality. I think 50 mm is a good trade off all around wheels. As far as aerodynamics, I think front wheels are more impacting, so it's usually better to have deeper rims in the front than in the back.
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Says the guy who's OP just took a dump on him.
From all the cracked OP's I read about I can only assume people confuse a crappy, heavy, slow, sort of cheap wheel with something reliable. And yes Virginia, I've owned a set and the tubular equivilent.
I'd look at a set of Ultegra tubeless. They can be had online for $300 or so. Hits all the design points for both reliability and performance. Stiff, aero, hard to kill. Plus it allows you to run tubeless which is a pretty large safety increase over a tube and with sealant will often get you through a race.
I have a set that's been ridden nearly everyday for two years and three sets of tires, haven't touched them. I've taken mine off road numerous times and ridden them flat out on cobbles. 155 LB rider.
At 30mm a somewhat smaller rim will be faster if it's got a lower spoke count (see Ultegra). Most 30mm rims are more show and less go. A few 40mm rims have good numbers (HED, ENVE). I race 60's for a ton of stuff even when it's windy.
Thing with higher profile rims is they react slower and require a greater skill set to deal with if it gets gusty. If you've got a ton of miles on them training and then take them to a race, that's one thing. But buying them and sticking them on for a Cat 5 race...not so good.
From all the cracked OP's I read about I can only assume people confuse a crappy, heavy, slow, sort of cheap wheel with something reliable. And yes Virginia, I've owned a set and the tubular equivilent.
I'd look at a set of Ultegra tubeless. They can be had online for $300 or so. Hits all the design points for both reliability and performance. Stiff, aero, hard to kill. Plus it allows you to run tubeless which is a pretty large safety increase over a tube and with sealant will often get you through a race.
I have a set that's been ridden nearly everyday for two years and three sets of tires, haven't touched them. I've taken mine off road numerous times and ridden them flat out on cobbles. 155 LB rider.
At 30mm a somewhat smaller rim will be faster if it's got a lower spoke count (see Ultegra). Most 30mm rims are more show and less go. A few 40mm rims have good numbers (HED, ENVE). I race 60's for a ton of stuff even when it's windy.
Thing with higher profile rims is they react slower and require a greater skill set to deal with if it gets gusty. If you've got a ton of miles on them training and then take them to a race, that's one thing. But buying them and sticking them on for a Cat 5 race...not so good.
Last edited by Racer Ex; 11-20-13 at 07:19 PM.
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Thing with higher profile rims is they react slower and require a greater skill set to deal with if it gets gusty. If you've got a ton of miles on them training and then take them to a race, that's one thing. But buying them and sticking them on for a Cat 5 race...not so good.
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If you're interested in Racer Ex's suggestion of Ultegra wheels, the ten speed versions are relatively cheap now - $256.60 at Ribble. Don't know what the shipping would be from the UK, but this firm is reasonable on shipping.
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Lol I crashed that rim.. pretty sure any wheel woulda done the same.
My point was less on the brand, and more don't worry about high profile rims for now.
My point was less on the brand, and more don't worry about high profile rims for now.
#16
Senior Member
+1. I race bikes for fun. I'm a hack Cat 3 that can't climb or TT and I consider finishing a race a minor triumph. Big wheels are fun. Heck, equipment thoughts are fun. It's part of the game.
I agree that a front wheel makes more of an aero difference. Heck I used to ride a Specialized TriSpoke front (aka HED3 aka what a lot of pros use even now as a front wheel in TTs) and a non-aero rear wheel (Eurus). I even bought a clincher front TriSpoke so I could train on one all the time.
However with normal width rims you can't always run an aero front, or at least it's a bit sketchier than a non-aero front. With an aero rear you can always, always run the aero rear because it's stable. With the new wider rims you can run them in much windier conditions without problems. I've run a 75mm front in 20 mph gusts.
My ideal wheel combo for a given normal amateur racer is a pair of really tall wheels, like 70-90mm tall, and a non-aero front wheel. Go big on the flatter races, use the non-aero front for anything with super fast descents (big aero wheels are a handful at, say, 50 mph with massive gusts). For example my go to race wheels are 75/90mm F/R (flat crits or crits with a short climb in them). I have a pair of 60mm tall wheels but I only used the front once or twice in super windy conditions when I forgot my non-aero front training wheel. If I could get a 35-45mm tall wide front race wheel then I wouldn't really need the 60s at all, although I plan on gluing rain tires on the 60s and saving them for rainy crits.
I'm thinking about upgrading wheels too. But I'm thinking about gettng it from overseas for a lot cheaper, after doing my homework on their built quality. I think 50 mm is a good trade off all around wheels. As far as aerodynamics, I think front wheels are more impacting, so it's usually better to have deeper rims in the front than in the back.
However with normal width rims you can't always run an aero front, or at least it's a bit sketchier than a non-aero front. With an aero rear you can always, always run the aero rear because it's stable. With the new wider rims you can run them in much windier conditions without problems. I've run a 75mm front in 20 mph gusts.
My ideal wheel combo for a given normal amateur racer is a pair of really tall wheels, like 70-90mm tall, and a non-aero front wheel. Go big on the flatter races, use the non-aero front for anything with super fast descents (big aero wheels are a handful at, say, 50 mph with massive gusts). For example my go to race wheels are 75/90mm F/R (flat crits or crits with a short climb in them). I have a pair of 60mm tall wheels but I only used the front once or twice in super windy conditions when I forgot my non-aero front training wheel. If I could get a 35-45mm tall wide front race wheel then I wouldn't really need the 60s at all, although I plan on gluing rain tires on the 60s and saving them for rainy crits.
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"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
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I forget, did they ever regulate wheel depth for amateur racers? I know there was talk of it earlier this year.
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I've been struggling with what wheel(set) to buy also. I've got a set of really old OP's - so old I don't really trust them anymore - that have been relegated to winter/trainer duty. On the other end I've got a pair of Firecrest 404 clinchers for race day. I don't really want to use the 404's as daily drivers, so I need a set of training wheels...and I don't like adjusting brake width every time I out on the aero wheels and race....
What do you guys do? Adjust brakes with the race wheels on race day? Ride the nice wheels all the time? Have a second set of widish rims for daily drivers? (Which?)
I would jump on RX's ultegra advice above but it doesn't address the brake adjustment PITA.
What do you guys do? Adjust brakes with the race wheels on race day? Ride the nice wheels all the time? Have a second set of widish rims for daily drivers? (Which?)
I would jump on RX's ultegra advice above but it doesn't address the brake adjustment PITA.
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Easy solution, my race wheels are my training wheels. Maybe someday as my ability increases I'll see a need (or have the cash) to buy race specific wheels, but not now. So I can't answer your question. Although I can say there are plenty of 23mm aluminum rims out there you could build into a training wheel set. Wouldn't need to be expensive either.
#20
Senior Member
I've been struggling with what wheel(set) to buy also. I've got a set of really old OP's - so old I don't really trust them anymore - that have been relegated to winter/trainer duty. On the other end I've got a pair of Firecrest 404 clinchers for race day. I don't really want to use the 404's as daily drivers, so I need a set of training wheels...and I don't like adjusting brake width every time I out on the aero wheels and race....
What do you guys do? Adjust brakes with the race wheels on race day? Ride the nice wheels all the time? Have a second set of widish rims for daily drivers? (Which?)
I would jump on RX's ultegra advice above but it doesn't address the brake adjustment PITA.
What do you guys do? Adjust brakes with the race wheels on race day? Ride the nice wheels all the time? Have a second set of widish rims for daily drivers? (Which?)
I would jump on RX's ultegra advice above but it doesn't address the brake adjustment PITA.
My ideal solution would be to get some wider clinchers, like the Ardennes plus or a set of the wider carbon clinchers. I'm not in a super rush though.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
#21
Senior Member
To the OP: the main reason for a new racer to buy a new set of wheels would be to have a spare set to put in the pit or the wheel truck in case of a flat during the race. I'll be honest, I've been racing six years and in ~80 races total (a couple of years with almost no racing in there) I've had access to spare wheels on only a handful of occasions, and for me that hasn't been an issue. I've never flatted out of a race, not saying that you won't because I know I've been lucky, but with good maintenance and not riding like an idiot it should be infrequent enough not to have a major impact on your results during a season. And frankly, the wheel truck in most RRs is going to allow you to ride your bike back to the finish line instead of hitchhiking. Very seldom can you expect to get a wheel change and get back into contention in a road race. So I hope you see the point that a new set of wheels is a good idea so you don't end up stranded in the middle of nowhere after a flat, but isn't likely to affect your results much.
I think Ex's suggestion of going tubeless is intriguing. I don't know about this whole road tubeless thing, dealing with the tire availability and compatibility and such seems like a PITA, I think most setups are heavier for the same price (??) but Ex knows WTF he's talking about regarding equipment. So I would take that suggestion seriously. If you've got tubeless tires with sealant, you're definitely less likely to need that wheel truck in the first place.
Oh, and finally - if you want wheels, buy wheels. New stuff is nice and your stock wheels are probably pretty crap. Get a professionally-built wheelset and ride them for everything, throw your crummy stock wheels in the pit and run them on the trainer. Have fun.
#22
Senior Member
I've been struggling with what wheel(set) to buy also. I've got a set of really old OP's - so old I don't really trust them anymore - that have been relegated to winter/trainer duty. On the other end I've got a pair of Firecrest 404 clinchers for race day. I don't really want to use the 404's as daily drivers, so I need a set of training wheels...and I don't like adjusting brake width every time I out on the aero wheels and race....
What do you guys do? Adjust brakes with the race wheels on race day? Ride the nice wheels all the time? Have a second set of widish rims for daily drivers? (Which?)
I would jump on RX's ultegra advice above but it doesn't address the brake adjustment PITA.
What do you guys do? Adjust brakes with the race wheels on race day? Ride the nice wheels all the time? Have a second set of widish rims for daily drivers? (Which?)
I would jump on RX's ultegra advice above but it doesn't address the brake adjustment PITA.
#23
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what part of wide rims don't you guys trust or like?
when I bought some 23mm HEDs with 25mm tires, I felt like it was a revelation. Super smooth, great for descending.
when I bought some 23mm HEDs with 25mm tires, I felt like it was a revelation. Super smooth, great for descending.
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+1 on Grolby's 2 comments above.
re: CX: yep I bought 2 pair of Boyd's wide aluminum wheels, 1 tubie 1 clincher, for CX. It was a smart decision. Interchangeable for my CX bike, and cheap enough that the fact that my race-day tubies are now all beat to hell doesn't really bother me...and it totally would if I'd trashed some 303's.
back to road wheels: my OP's are at least 3 bikes old...much more than a decade I think...and although they've not shown any cracks and needed only seldom and moderate truing (and I'm ~200lbs), they are heavy, not-aero, and they're old enough that I don't really trust them for racing.
So 2 yrs ago I bought a set of race wheels...Zipps...I love'em but they're enough $$$ that I worry about them when I ride/race them! (And then there's this wheel-interchangeability issue).
BTW I did flat in a RR once. And yeah, my experience was such that it's not likely you're going to get back in the lead group...but you get to ride back to your car instead of hitch-hiking.
And CDR thanks for the wheel advice. I've found some wide aluminum wheels on craigslist that should eliminate wheel-swapping brake adjustment (though not brake pad swapping, so there's still that.) CDR I'm one of those internet guys who you'll likely never meet but who have learned a lot from you - thanks!
I think this is a great time of year to be buying wheels - there are lots of deals out there.
re: CX: yep I bought 2 pair of Boyd's wide aluminum wheels, 1 tubie 1 clincher, for CX. It was a smart decision. Interchangeable for my CX bike, and cheap enough that the fact that my race-day tubies are now all beat to hell doesn't really bother me...and it totally would if I'd trashed some 303's.
back to road wheels: my OP's are at least 3 bikes old...much more than a decade I think...and although they've not shown any cracks and needed only seldom and moderate truing (and I'm ~200lbs), they are heavy, not-aero, and they're old enough that I don't really trust them for racing.
So 2 yrs ago I bought a set of race wheels...Zipps...I love'em but they're enough $$$ that I worry about them when I ride/race them! (And then there's this wheel-interchangeability issue).
BTW I did flat in a RR once. And yeah, my experience was such that it's not likely you're going to get back in the lead group...but you get to ride back to your car instead of hitch-hiking.
And CDR thanks for the wheel advice. I've found some wide aluminum wheels on craigslist that should eliminate wheel-swapping brake adjustment (though not brake pad swapping, so there's still that.) CDR I'm one of those internet guys who you'll likely never meet but who have learned a lot from you - thanks!
I think this is a great time of year to be buying wheels - there are lots of deals out there.
#25
Senior Member
I'm really surprised that some of you haven't been replying:
"First season racing, $500 budget = Used Powertap. Far greater gains than you'll find with just about any other $500 wheel set."
"First season racing, $500 budget = Used Powertap. Far greater gains than you'll find with just about any other $500 wheel set."
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