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Racer Tech Thread

Old 08-25-15, 10:10 AM
  #2476  
canuckbelle
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Originally Posted by MDcatV
I'm making same decision now. I think that I'd never know the difference between the frames because we're just talking carbon layup, correct? so, I'd compare the group rather than the frame and let that drive the decision.
Well, the big difference in the frame upgrade is that you get the one piece bar/stem, which you don't get with the 10. So one possibility is get the HMX with the one piece bar/stem, but put Ultegra Di2 on it (which is the groupset on the 10).
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Old 08-25-15, 10:52 AM
  #2477  
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
Yeah, no clamp on for the 1x Allez Sprint, but there's a 2x version coming soon.

Decisions decisions. What frams?

- Tarmac just like the one I broke

- Venge (not the fancy one)

- Allez Sprint, which I am really interested in, but would have to drive like 2 hours to demo, and didn't have a great experience with my last specialized alu bike so hmph

- Supersix
It's aluminum. Couldn't you have a FD hanger welded on?
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Old 08-25-15, 10:52 AM
  #2478  
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Originally Posted by canuckbelle
Well, the big difference in the frame upgrade is that you get the one piece bar/stem, which you don't get with the 10. So one possibility is get the HMX with the one piece bar/stem, but put Ultegra Di2 on it (which is the groupset on the 10).

I love my scott foil, but my next bike will have hidden front brakes. It's a real advantage.
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Old 08-25-15, 10:59 AM
  #2479  
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Originally Posted by caloso
It's aluminum. Couldn't you have a FD hanger welded on?
If you don't mind voiding the warranty...
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Old 08-25-15, 11:07 AM
  #2480  
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Originally Posted by revchuck
If you don't mind voiding the warranty...
Uh, yeah. Well, there's that. Seriously, that looks like the perfect race bike for my purposes, except for the lack of FD. I can't justify having a crit only bike.
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Old 08-25-15, 11:52 AM
  #2481  
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I've got a Caad 10 arriving this week to replace the frame that was cracked in my encounter last month with a car.

I briefly considered waiting for the Allez Sprint to come out with the FD hanger - while the bike will mostly be used in crits and I don't really need a little ring for those, I'd like the bike to be a bit more versatile than just racing crits.

BUT, it's a really expensive aluminum frame. Even with a discount, it would still be about $1000 - almost twice what I'm paying for a brand new Caad 10. And aluminum at that price isn't much of a value. If you crash it, there's a good chance it will dent and crack. Aluminum can't be repaired. A carbon fiber frame could.
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Old 08-25-15, 12:37 PM
  #2482  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro
I've got a Caad 10 arriving this week to replace the frame that was cracked in my encounter last month with a car.

I briefly considered waiting for the Allez Sprint to come out with the FD hanger - while the bike will mostly be used in crits and I don't really need a little ring for those, I'd like the bike to be a bit more versatile than just racing crits.

BUT, it's a really expensive aluminum frame. Even with a discount, it would still be about $1000 - almost twice what I'm paying for a brand new Caad 10. And aluminum at that price isn't much of a value. If you crash it, there's a good chance it will dent and crack. Aluminum can't be repaired. A carbon fiber frame could.
$1350 MSRP for the frameset. Set against an even grand for the CAAD10, it's kind of a no-brainer. With the CAAD12 coming out soon, I wonder what the MSRP for that is going to be.

Edit: Super Secret Insider Knowledge Check indicates that a CAAD12 frameset is currently not available. When/if when will be available, I do not know. I suspect it will, but it may take some time.

2nd edit: actually, it appears that a CAAD12 frameset WILL be available eventually. For pricing, let's just say it will compare very favorably to the CAAD10.

Last edited by grolby; 08-25-15 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 08-25-15, 01:02 PM
  #2483  
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Originally Posted by canuckbelle
Well, the big difference in the frame upgrade is that you get the one piece bar/stem, which you don't get with the 10. So one possibility is get the HMX with the one piece bar/stem, but put Ultegra Di2 on it (which is the groupset on the 10).
get the one with Di2

changing cables on this bike is a total PITA, and you'll have to have a shop do it for you. I do most of my own wrenching, but changing derailleur cable is one thing i don't have patience for, and i'd gladly pay them $20 per cable to do it.

Only downside about the bike is the bottom bracket. Pressfit is the spawn of the devil.
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Old 08-25-15, 01:16 PM
  #2484  
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Originally Posted by echappist
get the one with Di2

changing cables on this bike is a total PITA, and you'll have to have a shop do it for you. I do most of my own wrenching, but changing derailleur cable is one thing i don't have patience for, and i'd gladly pay them $20 per cable to do it.
If you use cable liner when changing cables, it makes the process so much easier. Just thread the liner over the cable before you remove it, then pull out the cable. Then feed the new cable through the liner. I also suggest using some masking tape to tape down the liner so it doesn't fall out on you.

I bought a 30m spool of cable liner for like $9 for this purpose.
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Old 08-25-15, 01:23 PM
  #2485  
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thanks for the suggestion. do you have a link to the product?
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Old 08-25-15, 01:38 PM
  #2486  
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Originally Posted by echappist
get the one with Di2

changing cables on this bike is a total PITA, and you'll have to have a shop do it for you. I do most of my own wrenching, but changing derailleur cable is one thing i don't have patience for, and i'd gladly pay them $20 per cable to do it.

Only downside about the bike is the bottom bracket. Pressfit is the spawn of the devil.
Maybe I wasn't clear: my dilemma is between spending the extra for the HMX frame with the one piece, integrated bars...or the HMF frame with an integrated headset but standard bars. Whichever frame I get, it'll be with Ultegra Di2.

So the question is really: is it worth the extra however much (maybe $1000) for the HMX build vs HMF.
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Old 08-25-15, 01:56 PM
  #2487  
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worth is a how tall of a tree question that only you can answer

if it were up to I, I would get the cheaper one and buy an aero handlebar and call it a day. Difference (in CdA) of that setup vs one with integrated bars is probably minimal
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Old 08-25-15, 01:58 PM
  #2488  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
I love my scott foil, but my next bike will have hidden front brakes. It's a real advantage.
I have thought about that aswell but honestly I would rather not have V brakes, or proprietary brakes for that matter.
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Old 08-25-15, 02:05 PM
  #2489  
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Originally Posted by canuckbelle
Well, the big difference in the frame upgrade is that you get the one piece bar/stem, which you don't get with the 10. So one possibility is get the HMX with the one piece bar/stem, but put Ultegra Di2 on it (which is the groupset on the 10).
I have no interest in a 1 piece bar/stem; so I'd def get the 10
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Old 08-25-15, 04:26 PM
  #2490  
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If your fit is perfect or you have a great shop willing to swap those bars for you then go HMX.
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Old 08-25-15, 06:43 PM
  #2491  
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integrated stem/bars belong in the same category as cyclocross in august.
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Old 08-26-15, 06:40 AM
  #2492  
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Originally Posted by echappist
thanks for the suggestion. do you have a link to the product?
I think this is where I ordered it: Jagwire Black Housing Liner 30 Meter Roll, Fits up to 1.8mm Cables in Tree Fort Bikes Other Cable/Housing Parts (cat1292)

For awhile, I tried running sections of liner through the tubes to see if it improved shifting, but I didn't really notice it. I do find a short length of liner with a few rubber grommets helps reduce noise on the rear brake cable. Mostly I just cut sections that are about 6-10 inches longer than the run in the frame for use when replacing cables. The liner can get kinked when I tape it to the frame to keep it from falling out so having plenty of liner is nice. I just throw it away when it is too kinked.

Originally Posted by canuckbelle
Maybe I wasn't clear: my dilemma is between spending the extra for the HMX frame with the one piece, integrated bars...or the HMF frame with an integrated headset but standard bars. Whichever frame I get, it'll be with Ultegra Di2.

So the question is really: is it worth the extra however much (maybe $1000) for the HMX build vs HMF.
The difference in the frames will largely be weight. Maybe 100 to 150 grams. I went from a 2013 Argon to a 2014 and the frame dropped about 150g between the two years. I didn't really notice it though. (Change was due to a warranty issue.)

As for the one-piece bar stem, I am not a fan of the concept. Over the years, I have changed stems too many times, going with different lengths or angles. And I am particular about the rotation of my bars in the stem. But, I do see how they could be more aerodynamic and lighter weight. So, if the bar/stem combo comes in the stem length and angle you want and the bar rotation is where you want it, then go for it. I know several people who use them and really seem to like them.

Last edited by topflightpro; 08-26-15 at 06:45 AM.
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Old 08-26-15, 06:44 AM
  #2493  
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Saw that Sram released MSRP pricing for its new electronic groupset today: $2758 for everything. (https://www.sram.com/stories/introducing-sram-red-etap)

Based on my math, it looks like just the shifters, derailleurs, charges and USB would be about $1550.

Both numbers seems like reasonable - based on costs for DA 9070 and Campy EPS - prices to me for electronic shifting but I am still running 10-speed mechanical with little incentive to change.

If I were to go this route, I'd probably wait for the Force version.
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Old 08-26-15, 07:52 AM
  #2494  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro
Saw that Sram released MSRP pricing for its new electronic groupset today: $2758 for everything. (https://www.sram.com/stories/introducing-sram-red-etap)

Based on my math, it looks like just the shifters, derailleurs, charges and USB would be about $1550.

Both numbers seems like reasonable - based on costs for DA 9070 and Campy EPS - prices to me for electronic shifting but I am still running 10-speed mechanical with little incentive to change.

If I were to go this route, I'd probably wait for the Force version.

Oh yeah, been waiting for this info. They have satellite shifters, which will require a control box that appears to be about the size of a Garmin 500 (they say it fits a Garmin mount). They describe them as TT-specific, so it's not clear if they can be run in addition to regular shifters, or instead of regular shifters.

Since there's only one paddle per side, though, sprint shifters are maybe less useful than with Shimano Di2, since all you have to do is stab at one paddle or the other to shift from the drops.

[edit] What I wrote above is incorrect. The satellite shifters can be either plugged into the shifters, or on a TT bike with no shifters, can be plugged into a control box. So they can operate just like Shimano di2 satellite shifters. Though as grolby says below, as flat buttons they might not be as usable as sprint shifters compared to Shimano's pointy buttons.

Last edited by globecanvas; 08-26-15 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 08-26-15, 08:06 AM
  #2495  
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Wireless is something that makes me nervous to be honest. I have seen plenty of things go wrong with ANT+ sensors, batteries that crap out after a week, etc.

The idea of trusting my shifting to wireless transmission is just not that awesome to me. I hope to be proved wrong but I am definitely waiting a generation or two to move from wired electronic to wireless.
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Old 08-26-15, 08:31 AM
  #2496  
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
Oh yeah, been waiting for this info. They have satellite shifters, which will require a control box that appears to be about the size of a Garmin 500 (they say it fits a Garmin mount). They describe them as TT-specific, so it's not clear if they can be run in addition to regular shifters, or instead of regular shifters.

Since there's only one paddle per side, though, sprint shifters are maybe less useful than with Shimano Di2, since all you have to do is stab at one paddle or the other to shift from the drops.
CyclingTips' review indicated that usability of the "blips" as satellite shifters, and especially as sprint shifters, on normal road bikes is fairly poor. Apparently they're kind of tricky to locate under the tape and the shape isn't that favorable for sprint shifters. Sounds like they work better on the tops, but still not as nice as the Shimano equivalent. But they can be used, up to two per side.

I think the new group looks pretty interesting, I'm not in a big hurry to make the upgrade or anything, but I like what I see. And while I have questions about some specific use cases, I very much like that SRAM rethought the shift logic they could employ when freed from the constraints of mechanical cables. We'll see how this performs in the field at mass production scale, but I do think this is pushing the technology forward in a couple of really good ways.
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Old 08-26-15, 08:32 AM
  #2497  
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Originally Posted by mike868y
integrated stem/bars belong in the same category as cyclocross in august.
Mikey, youngest cranky old man in cycling!
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Old 08-26-15, 08:36 AM
  #2498  
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Originally Posted by grolby
Mikey, youngest cranky old man in cycling!
Yeah, but he's right.
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Old 08-26-15, 10:42 AM
  #2499  
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hey! i don't hate everything. i love metal bikes, mechanical shifting, and gumwall tires.
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Old 08-26-15, 10:44 AM
  #2500  
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Neo-retro-ubergrouch?
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