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Racer Tech Thread

Old 07-27-16, 07:54 AM
  #3776  
globecanvas
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I tried tubeless for cross a couple of years ago and gave up. Maybe it was my particular wheel/tire combo but it was a lot of burpy frustration. Also it makes it messy/annoying to change tires for different conditions.

I love tubeless for MTB though.
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Old 07-30-16, 04:15 AM
  #3777  
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So the new Venge VIAS Disc is interesting. Still don't think I would ever buy one, but it sounds like they finally decided on a good axle standard (12 X 142 and 12 X 100 thru-axle). If what they say is true it sounds like all the major teams have agreed upon that as the standard going forward. If that is the case I think we will start to see Disc adoption in the next 3 years.
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Old 07-30-16, 06:02 PM
  #3778  
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Originally Posted by dz_nuzz
So the new Venge VIAS Disc is interesting. Still don't think I would ever buy one, but it sounds like they finally decided on a good axle standard (12 X 142 and 12 X 100 thru-axle). If what they say is true it sounds like all the major teams have agreed upon that as the standard going forward. If that is the case I think we will start to see Disc adoption in the next 3 years.
lots of folks have gotten shafted on the way with buying disc-equipped bikes, thinking it was just a matter of getting disc vs rim, not realizing that there is a variety of axle standards and they are fluid. it's pretty crazy.

getting multiple wheels aligned so that rotors do not rub can be, at best, a PITA and, at worst, impossible.

for cross one can have separate bikes which kind of obviates the need to have the same hub standard and somewhat for aligning rotors to be the same distance from the bike's centerline.

i have 4 wheelsets (same manufacturer, same hub, different rims) and 2 bikes (same manufacturer) and it is literally impossible for me to align all 4 to a single bike. the best i can do is get 3 aligned to one bike or 2 wheelsets aligned w/o rub to each bike.

i still hope we don't see adoption at the pro level as that will push more amateurs to go disc, and there will be NO standard for amateurs, so neutral wheels will be a nightmare. i saw a couple guys riding discs at a recent stage race trying to deal with the neutral situation (pre-race) and it's definitely a PITA.
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Old 07-30-16, 06:05 PM
  #3779  
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
I tried tubeless for cross a couple of years ago and gave up. Maybe it was my particular wheel/tire combo but it was a lot of burpy frustration. Also it makes it messy/annoying to change tires for different conditions.

I love tubeless for MTB though.
you're not alone. there's pretty high side-force on tires in cross. either you run low pressure and deal with lots of burping which is scary and possibly dangerous or you run higher pressure and lose the associated benefit.

low volume and low pressure is not a great combo for tubeless, IMO.

(i say this as an owner of a set of tubeless wheels i ride with 38-40c tires. the setup is fine for training & gravel riding but doesn't compare to tubulars for cross.)
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Old 07-30-16, 06:07 PM
  #3780  
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this is why i'm waiting until they settle on a standard, and work out the issues with chainline to get my disc brake bike
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Old 07-30-16, 07:35 PM
  #3781  
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I think disc brakes will be a benefit and worth buying. In 3 years when there is a standard and most people are running that standard, then I'll switch.

Interesting that the standard is a through axle. I thought they would've done something else to eliminate the ejection problem and still used QR (like changing the angle of the dropouts or something). Won't a through axle seriously slow down wheel changes? I had a through axle MTB and it wasn't exactly a quick thing to take the wheel in and out from what I remember.
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Old 07-30-16, 08:03 PM
  #3782  
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Man. Previous generation Venge getting cheap. Not sure if worth the $1500, Sagan camo even.
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Old 07-30-16, 09:46 PM
  #3783  
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Originally Posted by shovelhd
I hear ya regarding the DA9000 cassettes. Shimano could be handling it better. I didn't know Recon made 11 speed Shimano cassettes. I have a K-Edge braze-on if you need it.
Have purchased 4 Recons 11sp 14-28. Responsible (other than the ride) for a DQ.
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Old 07-31-16, 05:04 AM
  #3784  
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Wut, no 49T ring?
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Old 07-31-16, 06:25 AM
  #3785  
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I have said this about Disc brakes since it became an issue for road: First we need to decide on a standard for the axels and thereby dropouts. Until that happens it is not worth buying a disc road bike. Look at the number of different interfaces that have flown around. 135mm QR, Specialized's SCS system, Thru Axels, QR Thru Axels (AKA Focus RAT), etc. Too many standards, until the entire peloton agrees on a standard and then agrees on rotor sizes we will not see adoption and anyone who thinks they are ahead of the curve by adopting early will be playing Russian roulette trying to guess which will become the actual standard.

@tetonrider also hit on the point I have been saying ever since I was a mechanic and had to work on Disc Brakes: They are too hard to get aligned. Sometimes pretty much impossible. Discs are great when they work well, and absolute crap when they don't (If you have ever gotten on a bike with contaminated pads you will know what I mean). They add complexity and frustration in return for a benefit in specific situations (Descents in the rain).

I just think that the New Venge is interesting because they claim that the pros have agreed on 142X12 and 100X12 Thru Axles with 160mm rotors. If that is the case then we may see an actual standard start to take hold. Then again Specialized also created the SCS system which basically fell flat on it's face.
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Old 07-31-16, 07:41 AM
  #3786  
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I'm soon going to be purchasing a cross bike (a Ridley X-night) with discs and was wondering if the disc standard for them was pretty much settled on (I think it has a QR system and not a through axle system). If it isn't I will consider getting a canti version instead..

Disclaimer: total cross newbie here!
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Old 07-31-16, 02:04 PM
  #3787  
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Originally Posted by Harlan
Man. Previous generation Venge getting cheap. Not sure if worth the $1500, Sagan camo even.
that bike is still a REALLY nice ride. i've seen the sagan paint online and have been intrigued by it...then saw it in person and liked it even more.

hell, i own an old venge and a new venge and (a) haven't been able to part with the old venge and (b) would be tempted by that deal!!
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Old 07-31-16, 02:07 PM
  #3788  
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Originally Posted by Doge
Have purchased 4 Recons 11sp 14-28. Responsible (other than the ride) for a DQ.
you were responding to a @shovelhd comment on DA cassettes.... that hasn't been an issue since they released the 9001 version (which was years ago), in my experience.

i was scared based initial reports but the shimano cassettes have been totally fine. shimano seems to have properly addressed the issue.

i also have a recon cassette for hill-climb use. it's fine but needs more careful/deliberate shifting and does better with constant (threshold/vo2) power vs lots of surges/sprints/jumps.
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Old 07-31-16, 02:10 PM
  #3789  
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Originally Posted by Harlan
Man. Previous generation Venge getting cheap. Not sure if worth the $1500, Sagan camo even.
ps where are you seeing this? dealer site with <=2015 models? they were blowing some out a year ago when the new ViAS came out; i got my ViAS and my buddy was debating between old v new. the deals made the choice easy.

is this the SW frameset?
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Old 07-31-16, 03:20 PM
  #3790  
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i really love 6800 but jfc shimano has to fix the "shifters eating cables" problem
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Old 07-31-16, 05:28 PM
  #3791  
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Conventional wisdom is every 5k you replace the cable, but I find 3k to be more realistic. It's the only thing about Shimano that chaffs my nipples.
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Old 07-31-16, 05:43 PM
  #3792  
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I just replaced mine a couple of months ago with more than 5k miles on them. I just used the generic stainless cables we use in the shop as replacements - I really dislike the new style Shimano coated cables, they shed like a German Shepherd in the summertime. The original cables were still in good shape other than the shredded coating.
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Old 07-31-16, 05:44 PM
  #3793  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
Conventional wisdom is every 5k you replace the cable, but I find 3k to be more realistic. It's the only thing about Shimano that chaffs my nipples.
the first cable i replaced after two months and it showed literally no signs of wear/fraying, so this one has been in since KSR.
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Old 07-31-16, 05:48 PM
  #3794  
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Originally Posted by revchuck
I just replaced mine a couple of months ago with more than 5k miles on them. I just used the generic stainless cables we use in the shop as replacements - I really dislike the new style Shimano coated cables, they shed like a German Shepherd in the summertime. The original cables were still in good shape other than the shredded coating.
yeah but we got these things called hills in these parts
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Old 07-31-16, 05:57 PM
  #3795  
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I figured that might be part of the issue. I don't do much shifting when doing solo Z2/3 rides, just during the fast group rides when I'm desperately trying to find a gear that'll keep me from being dropped!
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Old 07-31-16, 07:46 PM
  #3796  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
Conventional wisdom is every 5k you replace the cable, but I find 3k to be more realistic. It's the only thing about Shimano that chaffs my nipples.
I am riding sram red 10s shifters with cable that is... 15k miles in?
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Old 08-01-16, 12:36 AM
  #3797  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
Conventional wisdom is every 5k you replace the cable, but I find 3k to be more realistic. It's the only thing about Shimano that chaffs my nipples.
3k is super short. I've had my bike for about 9 months, or about 9000 miles and just recently been noticing I need new cables. I just hope I'm not so lazy I let it go til one breaks in a race again.

Edit. So yeah... Maybe not much over 5k seems like the ultra safe way to go. But 3k is just... I'd probably quit riding bikes if I had to do that crap 4 times a year.
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Old 08-01-16, 06:40 AM
  #3798  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider
ps where are you seeing this? dealer site with <=2015 models? they were blowing some out a year ago when the new ViAS came out; i got my ViAS and my buddy was debating between old v new. the deals made the choice easy.

is this the SW frameset?
I too would like to know where to get this deal.
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Old 08-01-16, 06:54 AM
  #3799  
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Originally Posted by aaronmcd
3k is super short. I've had my bike for about 9 months, or about 9000 miles and just recently been noticing I need new cables. I just hope I'm not so lazy I let it go til one breaks in a race again.

Edit. So yeah... Maybe not much over 5k seems like the ultra safe way to go. But 3k is just... I'd probably quit riding bikes if I had to do that crap 4 times a year.
to be fair it takes about 15 minutes to change a cable. i'd rather err on the side of doing it too often than having a ride/race spoiled by a broken cable.
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Old 08-01-16, 07:05 AM
  #3800  
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Are y'all changing the housing too?
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