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Racer Tech Thread

Old 08-08-17, 05:26 AM
  #5051  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider
not sure of your racing level, but my advice would be to either (a) race the TT like you mean it (to win) if you are capable of placing high in the GC or to (b) don't worry about it and go easy.

if (a), then respect it and put the requisite effort into the discipline -- training and gear.
if (b), use the energy you save to pull off a win(s) in other stages.

/snip

for me, that means taking a hard look at the a/b choice above.
Fair points, in the past my feeling was that if I'm paying for the stage race, I don't want to "phone in" a tempo paced TT. I can certainly see why folks do it. At my level (4) winning a GC doesn't get you anything at all. So a TT is somewhat pointless unless you're after cash. And that's probably why I placed as reasonably as I did on a first day TT!

I'll likely just save this TT frame in my basement until cat 3.

As for the wheel thing, the Jet+ wheels are awesome. I don't ever take them off my bike. Aero data backs up the wider wheels for sure so get 25mm. Whooshy noises for days. They do hold and get up to speed better but a good body position is worth one heck of a lot more. Want to descend a hairpin turn in the rain? They've got you covered. Neutral descent at Quabbin in the rain like two years ago? Hell yeah.

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Old 08-08-17, 07:35 AM
  #5052  
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You really are overthinking this to the point of micro-management. Quit under utilizing it if you plan to race on it next year.

Say you picked up track or CX for the first time this Winter. Do you think first blush will produce more meaningful results and experience? Or would having ridden that bike exclusively for a few months outside of racing or training provide insights and muscle memory you could revisit this year?

Food for thought. My only concern here is what is wrong with a frame that was given away for free. Personally I'd go over it until I found exactly that.
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Old 08-08-17, 08:19 AM
  #5053  
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Originally Posted by mike868y
do you have a coach? i've been thinking of ways to improve my performance next year. as i race on aluminum rims, everyone always tells me to get carbon race wheels. i'm also on a budget though and figure even the cheapest carbon wheels are worth ~3 months of coaching, which is probably more beneficial to my racing.
Stack the aero gains and the differences are pretty dramatic. Any single one on its own feels more like a novelty than anything though.

You should get a coachbro, bro!
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Old 08-08-17, 08:35 AM
  #5054  
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Originally Posted by mike868y
do you have a coach? i've been thinking of ways to improve my performance next year. as i race on aluminum rims, everyone always tells me to get carbon race wheels. i'm also on a budget though and figure even the cheapest carbon wheels are worth ~3 months of coaching, which is probably more beneficial to my racing.
i don't pay for a coach for several reasons, mainly because I don't get a whole lot of free time for riding, and my schedule can be pretty erratic these days.. Therefore, if I can't even put my hours in on a given week to do what I want to do on the bike, then paying for a coach is pretty much money down the drain. also, I feel like a lot of information that coach provide can be found for free on the internet, or just by asking people who are passionate about this type of stuff. lastly, even if paying for a coach does give me a say 15% gain in performance, it's stil lnot worth while to me because i have other priorities.
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Old 08-08-17, 08:38 AM
  #5055  
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I feel like I want to chime in here.

Deep Carbon: In my opinion it is useful if you make it useful. I am a breakaway guy and in my experience deep carbon wheels do make a difference. Even if it is just a half MPH more when you are OTF that really matters in a race. As for braking I have mostly used newer rims. They are great when dry (arguably better than my aluminum rims) and in the rain you just need to hit them a little earlier which is not really that big a deal and I have had the same experience with aluminum rims in the rain (hit them earlier).

TT Frames: This was the first year I have used a real TT bike and it really does make a world of difference. But yeah, you need to dial your position in. Personally I couldn't get comfortable till I saw Dean Phillips, he made a few simple adjustments and my power went up, along with comfort and if I were to extrapolate from my before and after TT results I got more aero as well.
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Old 08-08-17, 08:41 AM
  #5056  
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Originally Posted by dz_nuzz
I feel like I want to chime in here.

Deep Carbon: In my opinion it is useful if you make it useful. I am a breakaway guy and in my experience deep carbon wheels do make a difference. Even if it is just a half MPH more when you are OTF that really matters in a race. As for braking I have mostly used newer rims. They are great when dry (arguably better than my aluminum rims) and in the rain you just need to hit them a little earlier which is not really that big a deal and I have had the same experience with aluminum rims in the rain (hit them earlier).

TT Frames: This was the first year I have used a real TT bike and it really does make a world of difference. But yeah, you need to dial your position in. Personally I couldn't get comfortable till I saw Dean Phillips, he made a few simple adjustments and my power went up, along with comfort and if I were to extrapolate from my before and after TT results I got more aero as well.
yes, this. all of this is what I would say.

we're lucky that it's relatively dry in norcal, but I've been riding the same cabon rims for 30+k miles in training and in some races. (the 50mm ones). I paid $800. I weigh 185 and descend as much as I climb without issue in re: to the brakes.
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Old 08-08-17, 09:03 AM
  #5057  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
yes, this. all of this is what I would say.

we're lucky that it's relatively dry in norcal, but I've been riding the same cabon rims for 30+k miles in training and in some races. (the 50mm ones). I paid $800. I weigh 185 and descend as much as I climb without issue in re: to the brakes.
which ones did you get out of curiosity?
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Old 08-08-17, 09:17 AM
  #5058  
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i'm not opposed to building my own.. I don't mind the labor.

2x$80 flo 30s (aluminum!)
$30 shipping
~80 on cx sapim spokes (20/24)
$70 novatec hubs (or others; open to suggestions)
+ tax and whatever..
---------------------
~$375

well.. that's not a whole lot of savings compared to just getting deeper 50 mm carbon rims from china.. nevermind
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Old 08-08-17, 09:40 AM
  #5059  
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for the record i wasn't doubting the benefits of aero gear, just saying that for me if the question was "$500 to make my cycling better" i'd go elsewhere, but I understand everyone has different priorities, etc.
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Old 08-08-17, 09:59 AM
  #5060  
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Originally Posted by spectastic
which ones did you get out of curiosity?
racerims built by a local guy, Sean Loller. They are reynolds rims that he builds out. If you contact him tell him I sent you - likely give you a little discount.
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Old 08-08-17, 11:29 AM
  #5061  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
racerims built by a local guy, Sean Loller. They are reynolds rims that he builds out. If you contact him tell him I sent you - likely give you a little discount.
Great wheels and why we have him on our kit. I had about 30k on my 50mm wheels before they died a quick death in a crit crash last month. Already have an order in for more.
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Old 08-09-17, 08:37 PM
  #5062  
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I train and race (road) on carbon. I'm 150lbs and never notice any issues with braking, even in the wet.
I have a set of November RFSC 58mm, recently set up tubeless with Schwalbe Pro Ones, and a set of Reynolds Attack. Both with PT hubs.
TT bike has a set of HED Jet 5/9, care a little less about weight there, and use a Wheelbuilder AeroJacket on the 9. Also a PT hub.

In the wet I just hit the brakes for a second before I really need them to clear the water and then they brake great.
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Old 08-09-17, 09:00 PM
  #5063  
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if you want carbon wheels for racing, i'm cleaning out my garage and have a bunch of tubular wheelsets i'm inching closer to selling. i think tubulars are relevant for racing in big packs--e.g., saw many dudes flatting after hitting square edges at KSR, and that's basically a non-issue with tubulars.

i think a set of 808FC are going to a buddy.

i also have a set of 303FC (basically new) with Vittoria CX IIIs, Shimano C50s (Specialized Turbo Allround 24s), and 404s (front is new after being sent to Zipp for that hub recall).

all are 11s.

(i also have an H3 tubular, H3 clincher, Zipp Super 9 clincher.)

i got around to taking pictures and am inching closer to listing them. i'd make a good deal on any of them. I love them all but I'd rather see them put to use than sit in my garage.
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Old 08-10-17, 08:17 AM
  #5064  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider
i also have a set of 303FC (basically new) with Vittoria CX IIIs, Shimano C50s (Specialized Turbo Allround 24s), and 404s (front is new after being sent to Zipp for that hub recall).
I texted tetonrider about buying the 404s and he looked in his garage for them, but wrote back that the 404s were not found.
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Old 08-10-17, 08:53 AM
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This isn't the geek thread!
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Old 08-10-17, 09:05 AM
  #5066  
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
I texted tetonrider about buying the 404s and he looked in his garage for them, but wrote back that the 404s were not found.
301 to the 41
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Old 08-10-17, 10:06 AM
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cycling analytics with the power history chart.

eye opening for me.

everybody wants to be fast but don't nobody want to ride these heavy ass lung-busting 3 minute efforts.
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Old 08-10-17, 10:11 AM
  #5068  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
cycling analytics with the power history chart.
What settings do you find most useful/interesting?


.. I'm not sure how useful I find it. A lot of my peak power per time numbers are from workouts where I did the first interval way too hard and ended up spending less time in zone than would have been optimal. I'd rather see a more customizable chart of historical time in zone -- the zone analysis chart is almost what I need but if you hide zones zones, the y-axis doesn't rescale so the visualization is not great.

Last edited by globecanvas; 08-10-17 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 08-10-17, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
What settings do you find most useful/interesting?


.. I'm not sure how useful I find it. A lot of my peak power per time numbers are from workouts where I did the first interval way too hard and ended up spending less time in zone than would have been optimal. I'd rather see a more customizable chart of historical time in zone -- the zone analysis chart is almost what I need but if you hide zones zones, the y-axis doesn't rescale so the visualization is not great.
I mean, it's chicken/egg, but for me I find confirmation in my belief that I get fastest when I do all-out 3ish minute efforts. They are the hardest for me mentally, but when I look at that chart and run it against my best periods of fitness, it's when I have high 3-min efforts.
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Old 08-10-17, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
I mean, it's chicken/egg, but for me I find confirmation in my belief that I get fastest when I do all-out 3ish minute efforts. They are the hardest for me mentally, but when I look at that chart and run it against my best periods of fitness, it's when I have high 3-min efforts.
Same. I always hated 1 minute efforts. Until I started focusing on 2 and 3 minute intervals. I guess I still hate them, I just hate them a little less now.
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Old 08-10-17, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
I texted tetonrider about buying the 404s and he looked in his garage for them, but wrote back that the 404s were not found.
wonder how many will understand that joke.
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Old 08-10-17, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
What settings do you find most useful/interesting?


.. I'm not sure how useful I find it. A lot of my peak power per time numbers are from workouts where I did the first interval way too hard and ended up spending less time in zone than would have been optimal. I'd rather see a more customizable chart of historical time in zone -- the zone analysis chart is almost what I need but if you hide zones zones, the y-axis doesn't rescale so the visualization is not great.
have you tested WKO4?

the interface is a bit of a PITA, but i would think with your background you would enjoy the ability to basically plot anything, and do so as you want to see it.
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Old 08-10-17, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
I mean, it's chicken/egg, but for me I find confirmation in my belief that I get fastest when I do all-out 3ish minute efforts. They are the hardest for me mentally, but when I look at that chart and run it against my best periods of fitness, it's when I have high 3-min efforts.
correlation or causation?

edit to add: most amateur road races are blown apart in a span of 2-3'. we'd like to think that it's about FTP (and it can be, for some), but usually (a) selective hills in amateur races in the USA are not all that long and (b) the split happens in the first 2-3', regardless.

there are examples to the contrary, of course.

train to the demands of the event rather than pretty #s on a pace.
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Old 08-10-17, 09:45 PM
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I've become "proficient" with Golden cheetah over the last year and I'm very pleased with it. Between GC and plugging rides into TP(basic) I have more than enough data and analytical information.
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Old 08-11-17, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by tetonrider
edit to add: most amateur road races are blown apart in a span of 2-3'. we'd like to think that it's about FTP (and it can be, for some), but usually (a) selective hills in amateur races in the USA are not all that long and (b) the split happens in the first 2-3', regardless.
took me forever to realize this. I would say "oh X is a 10 minute hill so i should train 10 minute efforts" then get shelled in the first two minutes when everyone goes ape **** before settling in. so even if i could do the AP over the course of 10 minutes that I needed I'd go OTB because I couldn't stick with the initial surge.
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