Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Racer Tech Thread

Old 08-11-17, 06:44 AM
  #5076  
Ninny
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Gunks
Posts: 5,295
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by tetonrider
most amateur road races are blown apart in a span of 2-3'
Everybody says this, and it's true, but it's also true that those crux moments usually happen when everyone has already been going hard. FTP, or depth of fitness, or repeatability, or whatever you want to call it, is what lets you hang on for that hard 3 minute effort right after your break has been caught, or the field has been strung out for 10 minutes, etc.
globecanvas is offline  
Old 08-11-17, 12:20 PM
  #5077  
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by tetonrider
wonder how many will understand that joke.
those of us with dial-up internet in 1993 who liked to look at naked ladies will for sure.
Ygduf is offline  
Old 08-11-17, 12:26 PM
  #5078  
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by tetonrider
correlation or causation?
that's what I mean with chicken & egg. whether I was fit because of hard 3-min efforts or I was out doing and succeeding at putting up good 3-minutes because I was fit.

I sort of believe the former as I know how often I go out to actually do that and it's pretty rare.
Ygduf is offline  
Old 08-11-17, 01:11 PM
  #5079  
Rides too much bike
 
dz_nuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Newsflash!

Got my ceramic AL33 wheels from the A-Force Kickstarter. Beautiful rims. Already had to true them which I attribute to a sloppy build. Also, if you get these rims DO NOT USE CARBON PADS, unless you are okay with the pads getting destroyed in like 40 miles. Otherwise they are very nice and have that awesome full carbon look but when smart butts comment on "riding carbon for training" you get to correct them and tell them you need ceramic rims because you got tired of wearing through aluminum brake tracks.

Also waiting on a set of CLX50s to arrive.

Yes I have a wheel problem.
dz_nuzz is offline  
Old 08-11-17, 02:24 PM
  #5080  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 304
Liked 153 Times in 72 Posts
I got the clx50's when they first came out earlier this year and you're going to love them. They've become my everyday wheel set.
ntnyln is offline  
Old 08-11-17, 03:57 PM
  #5081  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,449
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by globecanvas
Everybody says this, and it's true, but it's also true that those crux moments usually happen when everyone has already been going hard. FTP, or depth of fitness, or repeatability, or whatever you want to call it, is what lets you hang on for that hard 3 minute effort right after your break has been caught, or the field has been strung out for 10 minutes, etc.
well, of course it all matters, but FTP matters a whole lot less than many people think.

even when a field is strung out rarely is everyone at FTP.

i see lots and lots of race files where there is a lull before those hard 2-3', like the field anticipates what is about to come. even when the climb is 15', it's the base where people go nuts, typically.

but, honestly, when one 'hangs on after their break has been caught' that's a whole 'nother issue. (and if someone is in the break, they're likely relying a bit more on FTP anyway, so that is one of the exceptions i referred to earlier.)

ymmv, obvious generalizations, etc.
tetonrider is offline  
Old 08-11-17, 03:59 PM
  #5082  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,449
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dz_nuzz
Also waiting on a set of CLX50s to arrive.

Yes I have a wheel problem.
i'm cleaning house, selling 5 complete wheel sets and 4-5 single front and rear wheels..... and just beginning to scratch the surface.


Originally Posted by ntnyln
I got the clx50's when they first came out earlier this year and you're going to love them. They've become my everyday wheel set.
yeah. i was fortunate to be a tester for them for over a year now and probably put 6-7,000 miles on that wheel set. the front JUST went slightly out of true....and i ride them over a ton of stuff.

the production model is even better (better hub) than what i've got.

more interesting things are coming.
tetonrider is offline  
Old 08-11-17, 05:53 PM
  #5083  
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by tetonrider
well, of course it all matters, but FTP matters a whole lot less than many people think.

even when a field is strung out rarely is everyone at FTP.
I find the most beneficial part of a high ftp is recovery at a pace others still find taxing. my attacks are relatively garbage, but by the 4-5-6th people get tired of chasing.
Ygduf is offline  
Old 08-11-17, 09:54 PM
  #5084  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,449
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ygduf
I find the most beneficial part of a high ftp is recovery at a pace others still find taxing. my attacks are relatively garbage, but by the 4-5-6th people get tired of chasing.
which is also why repeatability is worth far more than peaks, and yet most folks stare only at their peaks in whatever software they use.
tetonrider is offline  
Old 08-12-17, 09:25 PM
  #5085  
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
send in my quarq to get 175mm cranks on it. short cranks experiment is over after ~3 years
Ygduf is offline  
Old 08-12-17, 10:36 PM
  #5086  
Senior Member
 
aaronmcd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: SF, CA
Posts: 3,462

Bikes: Cervelo S5, Marin Gestalt X11

Liked 65 Times in 45 Posts
Originally Posted by Ygduf
send in my quarq to get 175mm cranks on it. short cranks experiment is over after ~3 years
Yeah well if I was your height and all legs id like the long cranks also.

Some of us are short, trying to ger rid of the ever lingering wrestler/gymnast build and feel weird turning ginormous circles.
aaronmcd is offline  
Old 08-13-17, 04:55 AM
  #5087  
Rides too much bike
 
dz_nuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tetonrider
which is also why repeatability is worth far more than peaks, and yet most folks stare only at their peaks in whatever software they use.
This is what has annoyed me the most out of some of the discussions I have had with teammates recently. I get people telling me "Well this person peaks at X!" and then they only care about these idealized numbers and don't understand that they will not be doing idealized numbers again and again and again. I don't care what you can sprint at when you are fresh, I care about how you sprint after 80 miles and a 5 minute Z5 effort to get to the line.
dz_nuzz is offline  
Old 08-13-17, 08:05 AM
  #5088  
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,487

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Liked 378 Times in 257 Posts
Originally Posted by Ygduf
send in my quarq to get 175mm cranks on it. short cranks experiment is over after ~3 years
For kid - 175 for hills, 172.5 for road. I'd like him to train / ride on just 170s.
My fastest racing year (which was not so fast) I was commuting on 165s on a track bike. When I switched to 175s I could almost maintain my spin, now with as much torque. After riding on 175s for a couple weeks, my spin went down. I played with 165,170,172.5,175 and 180s (road coast to coast) and found 172.5 for a 6'2" 60cm frame me felt best.
But what I really noticed was that immediately after going longer I picked up the most speed.
Doge is offline  
Old 08-13-17, 08:42 AM
  #5089  
Senior Member
 
Doge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,487

Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753

Liked 378 Times in 257 Posts
I heard some not really surprising post race chit-chat from several groups of riders from the hill climb to 14k feet yesterday during the 2 hour podium wait.

-From the typical RR looking kid of riders: No leg pain, just could not go. Being stronger would do nothing, there is not enough air to drive bigger efforts.
-Then from the really skinny guys - legs were hurting.
-Climbing high is more about genetics

I'm not sure I agree with the latter, but it is pretty clear to me if you can't provide the O2 to larger muscles, they are not doing you a whole bunch of good. Of course that hill is extreme, but it just served to confirm what we all kinda know.
Doge is offline  
Old 08-14-17, 08:16 AM
  #5090  
Ninny
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Gunks
Posts: 5,295
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by tetonrider
i see lots and lots of race files where there is a lull before those hard 2-3', like the field anticipates what is about to come. even when the climb is 15', it's the base where people go nuts, typically.
Hmm, I suppose this is one of those things where everybody generalizes from their own experience. For myself, almost without exception, the moment when the race gets away is a hard effort when it's already hard.
globecanvas is offline  
Old 08-14-17, 01:34 PM
  #5091  
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by globecanvas
Hmm, I suppose this is one of those things where everybody generalizes from their own experience. For myself, almost without exception, the moment when the race gets away is a hard effort when it's already hard.
I don't think what you're saying excludes what TR is saying.

Going into a hill everyone eases off. Field jams it at the base of the selective terrain. Winning move goes off at the top of the terrain when everyone has been stressed for 3 minutes and 3-4-5 guys have the reserve to do 4 minutes and put in the 1-min dig over the top to get space.

Now you've got a tired field looking at each other while the strongest guys ride away.
Ygduf is offline  
Old 08-14-17, 10:34 PM
  #5092  
Senior Member
 
aaronmcd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: SF, CA
Posts: 3,462

Bikes: Cervelo S5, Marin Gestalt X11

Liked 65 Times in 45 Posts
I agree with GC if "when its already hard" means 8-12 minutes of hard. 2 to 4 minutes is usually too short unless its after a whole bunch of similar efforts, in which case its more of a threshold thing (like average power including short efforts is close to or at threshold) for me.
aaronmcd is offline  
Old 08-15-17, 03:42 PM
  #5093  
Cat 2
 
Ttoc6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: UT
Posts: 1,570

Bikes: Tarmac, Why Cycles R+, Evil The Calling

Liked 194 Times in 87 Posts
Canyon opened up sales in the US today. They have the disc aeroad that I'd love to have, but alas, it's expensive.

Maybe they'll do frameset sales. Definitely moving to disc road next year, just a matter of finding a frame to build it on. Will already have wheels, derailleur, cranks and cockpit. Just have to get some shifters and brakes.
Ttoc6 is offline  
Old 08-15-17, 08:53 PM
  #5094  
jsk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Houston
Posts: 606

Bikes: Trek Madone, Blue Triad SL, Dixie Flyer BTB

Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ttoc6
Canyon opened up sales in the US today. They have the disc aeroad that I'd love to have, but alas, it's expensive.

Maybe they'll do frameset sales. Definitely moving to disc road next year, just a matter of finding a frame to build it on. Will already have wheels, derailleur, cranks and cockpit. Just have to get some shifters and brakes.
Gotta say I'm really disappointed in the offerings they're currently showing for sale in the US. No Di2 except on the very top-of-the-line models of road bikes, only one Speedmax CF model (again no Di2) and no Speedmax CF SLX models at all. Having to choose from that limited selection, no thanks. I agree they should offer framesets for purchase, makes a lot more sense than having to choose from just a few complete bikes with unappealing configurations.
jsk is offline  
Old 08-15-17, 10:25 PM
  #5095  
Senior Member
 
hack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 3,888
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Framesets! Why no framesets?
hack is offline  
Old 08-16-17, 07:23 AM
  #5096  
Senior Member
 
miyata man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How many other companies in the USA use Di2 as OEM on anything but the top offering?
miyata man is offline  
Old 08-16-17, 07:37 AM
  #5097  
Rides too much bike
 
dz_nuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think a few do Di2 on a mid-level racer. Felt does the AR2 with Ultegra Di2 and I think Specialized does a similar thing.
dz_nuzz is offline  
Old 08-16-17, 08:15 AM
  #5098  
Senior Member
 
miyata man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I know the market over here is considerably different than Europe, and increasingly Africa, where they made their start. Certainly less sophisticated and more monopolized. The intricate pricing and specifications being suggested just aren't feasible to start out with. Framesets will almost certainly show up eventually but you need to remember this is more along the lines of a distributor testing a new product than a domestic manufacturer who can make changes on the fly.

it would be refreshing if they managed to strike a good balance between speccing crappy self branded parts and confusing array of options that repels customers.
miyata man is offline  
Old 08-16-17, 09:36 AM
  #5099  
jsk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Houston
Posts: 606

Bikes: Trek Madone, Blue Triad SL, Dixie Flyer BTB

Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by miyata man
How many other companies in the USA use Di2 as OEM on anything but the top offering?
Lots of manufacturers (including most of the major ones) offer Ultegra Di2 on their mid-tier models.

Part of it may be that it looks like Canyon is only listing 2018 models for sale in the US, and I don't think the new Ultegra 6900 is actually shipping yet, so it's likely we'll see those components showing up on new models later this year.

I'm not so sure about framesets though, from what I can tell Canyon has only been selling complete bikes in other markets, I don't think they've ever sold framesets (at least not in recent years).
jsk is offline  
Old 08-16-17, 10:23 AM
  #5100  
Senior Member
 
miyata man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I see framesets listed on their English language international site. No US specific site option available yet but it automatically selects our currency.

I do see a profusion of confusion between disc and rim road options which each need separate mechanical and electronic variants. Too bad, intricacy and complication instead of the refinement of purpose they are drawing on to expand here. At least they all use the same wheel size and BB... this year.
miyata man is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.