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Racer Tech Thread

Old 10-13-17, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by abhirama
Regarding longer spindles. A small part of this book (https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/bike-fit-9781408190302/ by Team Sky's fitter) talks about how in today's state of the art bike fit science, the "stance width" (q-factor, essentially) is a very ill-understood and highly overlooked portion of a bike fit. IIRC, he essentially says that if you have duck feet and if you have crank rub, then consider getting longer spindles
stance = Q + spindle + cleat position.

Q is a factor of the crank only.
2 pedals can have the same spindle length, but the effective width based on the platform is different.
cleat position is limited by the cleat type (duh) and shoe.

i guess one could argue that the shoe can affect stance, as some shoes allow more adjustment than others, thought it's not *usually* a width thing.
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Old 10-13-17, 10:02 PM
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Ignore the spin here (or not) and look at the bearing width. Similar Q factor but instead of a BB30 and flared cranks, these are more straight cranks and wider bearings (and steel 24mm spindles).

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Old 10-14-17, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Doge
Ignore the spin here (or not) and look at the bearing width. Similar Q factor but instead of a BB30 and flared cranks, these are more straight cranks and wider bearings (and steel 24mm spindles).

https://youtu.be/dlQrvB530qQ
what do you mean "similar"? there is only one set of cranks in that video.

are you introducing a new hypothesis that there is something notable about how Q is achieved?
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Old 10-14-17, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by abhirama
Regarding longer spindles. A small part of this book (https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/bike-fit-9781408190302/ by Team Sky's fitter) talks about how in today's state of the art bike fit science, the "stance width" (q-factor, essentially) is a very ill-understood and highly overlooked portion of a bike fit. IIRC, he essentially says that if you have duck feet and if you have crank rub, then consider getting longer spindles
May have to read that. I've always had a bit of rub and did have some success with longer spindles on DA pedals and Speedplay. And/or pushing my cleats all the way to the inside of my shoes. I've worn through a lot of booties over the years.

A better solution for the skin on my ankles turned out to be BB30. For those of us who toe out a curved crank arm, like a Hollowgram, offers a lot more fit options w/o having to compromise something like Q or cleat position.
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Old 10-14-17, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by tetonrider
what do you mean "similar"? there is only one set of cranks in that video.

are you introducing a new hypothesis that there is something notable about how Q is achieved?
No. That bike had BB30, and had the Specalized carbon cranks. I don't have those in the video, but they are well known. I replaced them with the wider bearing stance - 20mm or so, put the S carbon on the SHIV.
The Specalized cranks went from the narrower bearing stance to the pedals - they "flared" more. The Shimano went from the wider bearing stance and flared less. I expect, but did not measure, the Q factors were close between the two.
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Old 10-14-17, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Doge
No. That bike had BB30, and had the Specalized carbon cranks. I don't have those in the video, but they are well known. I replaced them with the wider bearing stance - 20mm or so, put the S carbon on the SHIV.
The Specalized cranks went from the narrower bearing stance to the pedals - they "flared" more. The Shimano went from the wider bearing stance and flared less. I expect, but did not measure, the Q factors were close between the two.
So you posted a video to cover what was directly covered?

It is possible that 2 cranksets can have different spindle widths and the same Q, which of course necessitates different arm shape. There are always situations where a crankset with narrow spindle can match the Q of wider cranks (in theory) but the reverse is not true.
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Old 10-14-17, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tetonrider
So you posted a video to cover what was directly covered?
Yes.
If a picture is a 1,000 words a 60fames/sec is?

And I think aside from Q factor I like wider smaller diameter bearings.
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Old 10-14-17, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge
Yes.
If a picture is a 1,000 words a 60fames/sec is?
... only worth more when it is something too difficult to describe in words or a single still image.

seriously, had your video even showed a comparison of something, then it might be more interesting, but we already know what a straight crank-arm looks like, and "wide" is only so when presented in contrast to something.

Originally Posted by doge
And I think aside from Q factor I like wider smaller diameter bearings.
we know.

i think wide & small diameter works, as does narrow and large diameter, as does wide and large diameter. each have advantages and disadvantages.

there are people who will argue that peak-bottom-bracket was achieved @ square taper...
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Old 10-14-17, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge
No. That bike had BB30, and had the Specalized carbon cranks. I don't have those in the video, but they are well known.
but... did you not think any of use would know what a dura ace crankset looks like without posting a video?

Originally Posted by doge
I replaced them with the wider bearing stance - 20mm or so, put the S carbon on the SHIV.
if you are a fan of wider cranks for your kid, why not put them on the shiv, too?


Originally Posted by doge
The Specalized cranks went from the narrower bearing stance to the pedals - they "flared" more. The Shimano went from the wider bearing stance and flared less. I expect, but did not measure, the Q factors were close between the two.
your expectation may not be correct. i just measured some S-Works FACT cranks @ 138 (just under); a set of DA cranks (SRM model, but the spindle is the same) @ 147. that is considered a notable change for many people--for road cranks.

however, as an example i ride on the road a fair bit and ride MTB -- and recently had to switch from 156Q to 168Q on my MTB and don't consider it an issue, mainly because my position is less static on the MTB; others disagree. there is also way more lateral movement on the pedal for the average MTB rider vs road.

Last edited by tetonrider; 10-14-17 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 10-14-17, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tetonrider
if you are a fan of wider cranks for your kid, why not put them on the shiv, too?
...
SHIV's, Tarmac were not purchased / owned by me. Dealing with logos, brands and stuff did get kinda complex.
Most the team 2015/2016 went to the wider BB bearings.
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Old 10-14-17, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge
SHIV's, Tarmac were not purchased / owned by me. Dealing with logos, brands and stuff did get kinda complex.
of course i can't keep track of your bikes, but you wrote that you had a BB30 bike with SW carbon cranks (sounds like a specialized bike) and you moved those cranks to the shiv (shivs have always come with cranks from specialized, but maybe it was supplied without cranks, which would be a little odd if you have to run specialized stuff for sponsor reasons).

you can see why it was a little confusing to someone reading.

Originally Posted by doge
Most the team 2015/2016 went to the wider BB bearings.
guess with what you've wrote that could be sponsor reasons or something else altogether.
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Old 10-14-17, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by tetonrider
of course i can't keep track of your bikes, but you wrote that you had a BB30 bike with SW carbon cranks (sounds like a specialized bike) and you moved those cranks to the shiv (shivs have always come with cranks from specialized, but maybe it was supplied without cranks, which would be a little odd if you have to run specialized stuff for sponsor reasons).

you can see why it was a little confusing to someone reading.


guess with what you've wrote that could be sponsor reasons or something else altogether.
It is confusing.
I can't keep track of my bikes. I have bikes I bought and bikes I get. Parts are traded, borrowed, returned - sometimes. Most the stuff now - I own, team bikes went back. Junior is off buying his own stuff now too. He must have about 6 bikes at the academy and another 8-9 he is responsible for and is in charge of bike stuff procurement. So nothing is getting clearer. I first worked for a guy in the 80s who had some 100 plus bikes. So this is all "normal".

Most the team members own bikes and ride 1-2 bike they don't own. In 2016 I got a pile of new stuff in boxes, some used stuff, some new frames with parts removed.

My comment was about crank bearing width and flared cranks / Q / pedals not explaining what comes on what. Sorry to mention it.

Another video - this year, and you can see the mess that a few kids have. Guessing 2.2 bikes/kid.
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Old 10-14-17, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge
It is confusing.
I can't keep track of my bikes. I have bikes I bought and bikes I get. Parts are traded, borrowed, returned - sometimes. Most the stuff now - I own, team bikes went back. Junior is off buying his own stuff now too. He must have about 6 bikes at the academy and another 8-9 he is responsible for and is in charge of bike stuff procurement. So nothing is getting clearer. I first worked for a guy in the 80s who had some 100 plus bikes. So this is all "normal".

Most the team members own bikes and ride 1-2 bike they don't own. In 2016 I got a pile of new stuff in boxes, some used stuff, some new frames with parts removed.

My comment was about crank bearing width and flared cranks / Q / pedals not explaining what comes on what. Sorry to mention it.

Another video - this year, and you can see the mess that a few kids have. Guessing 2.2 bikes/kid.
https://youtu.be/jHlO4Q_gl1g
not gonna click this time. fool me once...

guessing it is a video that shows many bikes, and i've seen bikes before. i can look in my garage for an image of that. :-)

hee hee
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Old 10-14-17, 03:36 PM
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I can vouch for [MENTION=99188]tetonrider[/MENTION] 's garage. I was in awe to see so much nice stuff. My collection currently sits in a home made PVC bike rack that does the job.
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Old 11-01-17, 03:49 PM
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did you all ever decide on which smart trainer is currently the best? It's going to start raining here sooner than later I think.
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Old 11-01-17, 04:45 PM
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I did review the link.

My wife wore a few out and has a bike permanently on one. I prefer her off that thing and riding/running with me.

Son has the snow issue, but only using rollers and watching movies. I think that is OK. And last week he got clearance to do track, so likely not needed there. And we can't share.

I likely would try 1-2 times and see max sprint and quit.


Zwift?

So doing nothing.
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Old 11-01-17, 08:22 PM
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I have a kickr2. I like it a lot. I had a kickr snap last winter. It was okay. Definitely made me a better cyclist, but I like the wheel off better.

For reference I've also ridden a ****ty trainer, and I ride rollers for race warmups or easy spins when I want something more active than the smart trainer. Check out the DCrainmaker review that he just put out. You really can't go wrong.
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Old 11-02-17, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
did you all ever decide on which smart trainer is currently the best? It's going to start raining here sooner than later I think.
Man, you have a rain bike. I have a rain bike.

HTFU and let's ride in the rain!

I might even get a new fender. After 5 years or whatever I think the one I have is just about done..
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Old 11-02-17, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Doge

Another video - this year, and you can see the mess that a few kids have. Guessing 2.2 bikes/kid.
https://youtu.be/jHlO4Q_gl1g
That's in Louisville? At Nationals?

Did you guys bring a semi to carry all of that stuff!

Wow. Enough to make most bike shops jealous.
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Old 11-02-17, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by mattm
Man, you have a rain bike. I have a rain bike.

HTFU and let's ride in the rain!

I might even get a new fender. After 5 years or whatever I think the one I have is just about done..
I'm interested in which fenders you're considering. Especially after having done intervals in a frog-strangler yesterday.
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Old 11-02-17, 06:43 AM
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I think my wife is getting a Kickr.
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Old 11-02-17, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval
That's in Louisville? At Nationals?

Did you guys bring a semi to carry all of that stuff!

Wow. Enough to make most bike shops jealous.
Yes. Some collegiate teams DO have a semi - Ft Lewis.

I posted that to justify why I was sometimes confused on cranks/bikes. The year before I built several, swapped parts and bike for, old bikes, personally owned, rider owned, team owned and Specalized. It gets mixed up in my head.

The personal owned bikes (inc directors kid) tended to have the BB and Shimano cranks I was mentioning and it made them easier to pick out (Fancy paint jobs helped too).
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Old 11-02-17, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mattm
Man, you have a rain bike. I have a rain bike.

HTFU and let's ride in the rain!

I might even get a new fender. After 5 years or whatever I think the one I have is just about done..
My goal is to ride zero miles in the rain this off season. #gonesoft
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Old 11-02-17, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
did you all ever decide on which smart trainer is currently the best? It's going to start raining here sooner than later I think.
I rode my father's Tacx Neo when I was home a month ago expecting it to be revolutionary and was very let down - I preferred my dumb old Kurt Kinetic much better (though I'm fully willing to admit this was likely my fault and I was using it wrong etc). It turns out its the riding indoors part that sucks, not so much what you're doing it on.

Originally Posted by mattm
Man, you have a rain bike. I have a rain bike.

HTFU and let's ride in the rain!

I might even get a new fender. After 5 years or whatever I think the one I have is just about done..
After crashing on bad roads several times this year I think I'm not going to be risking any rain rides this time around. I should probably sell my spare bike...
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Old 11-02-17, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mattm
Man, you have a rain bike. I have a rain bike.

HTFU and let's ride in the rain!

I might even get a new fender. After 5 years or whatever I think the one I have is just about done..
I like that you're trying to talk me out of structure, and also into spending more of my valuable time cleaning muddy ass bikes and replacing needlessly worn parts!

I don't have a rain bike anymore, btw. I have 2 race bikes!

I will probably get this for the inbetween days https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...cycle-mudguard
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