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-   -   Racer Tech Thread (https://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bike-racing/956936-racer-tech-thread.html)

happybday29475 06-01-15 07:07 AM


Originally Posted by Ygduf (Post 17851941)
preferred chamois creams? have been using enzos, but desire something thicker

my fave

Amazon.com: Udderly Smooth Udder Cream, Skin Moisturizer, 12 Ounce Jar: Health & Personal Care

works at least as well as anything else I've tried and much cheaper.

revchuck 06-01-15 08:39 AM


Originally Posted by Hermes (Post 17854163)
I think you have me confused with @Cleave. His stuff looks like new every time he rides it.

Probably. All you California guys look alike, at least on the internet. ;)

topflightpro 06-01-15 09:39 AM


Originally Posted by Duke of Kent (Post 17854423)
Just picked up a SRM spider for Hollowgrams with SRAM rings and PC V for $297, shipped. I have the arms, bolts, and spider installation tool, now I just have to track down an SRM specific 104mm axle and lockring.

One problem: I don't think it will mount on my bars. I got a smokin' deal on the Cervelo S5 bars before I found the SRM. Any ideas?

Nice. I paid almost twice that for mine just a week ago. But, I got a wireless one and it sounds like yours isn't. That said, depending on how old the chassis of your SRM is, you may not need a new spindle. I talked with SRM about this last week. If it was made within about the last four years, and depending on the frame, you do not always need the SRM specific spindle. Mine worked fine on the regular spindle that I had been running for the past eight years.

If you call SRM and tell them the serial number, they can tell you whether you have the new chassis and give you a sense of whether you need the SRM specific spindle.

Doge 06-01-15 09:54 AM


Originally Posted by tetonrider (Post 17854741)
You must not know that many road cyclists. :) "that they can get" is pretty ambiguous.

See the video of the exiting Cat 3s and milling at the start of a local SoCal good amateur race. The Cat 3s are finishing and leaving, those staging and starting are 30ish Cat 1s, same number of Cat 2s and small handful of pros. I only know 30% of these riders and about 10% know me:).

Can get = wheel profile, wheel width, aero bars, aero frames, aero helmets and even position.
Observation: I saw higher profile wheels in the Cat 3s than in the P12 race.

The following items have more aero selections available, generally at a higher weight, but at costs similar to what these riders chose to use. This was in a 28.4mph average speed race where AERO would certainly matter.

I saw no TT helmets.
I saw a very few what appeared to be over 70mm profile wheels.
I did not see any rear discs.
There were no tri-spokes
Tires were a mix of 23 and 25mm, I saw no 19mms
Estimate 80% had round handle bars.
The majority of bikes were round tubes.
There were few skin suits, and one speed suit (my kid)
There were no booties.


https://vimeo.com/129448200

vision646 06-01-15 10:55 AM


Originally Posted by rapwithtom (Post 17855087)
my fave

Amazon.com: Udderly Smooth Udder Cream, Skin Moisturizer, 12 Ounce Jar: Health & Personal Care

works at least as well as anything else I've tried and much cheaper.

I use something similar, Bag Balm and like Rapwithtom stated its way cheaper than most chamois cream. I think Coscto sells the 10oz jar for ~$4.5, Walgreens ~$7. Probably lasts me a bit more than a year.

spdntrxi 06-01-15 05:17 PM


Originally Posted by Doge (Post 17855633)
See the video of the exiting Cat 3s and milling at the start of a local SoCal good amateur race. The Cat 3s are finishing and leaving, those staging and starting are 30ish Cat 1s, same number of Cat 2s and small handful of pros. I only know 30% of these riders and about 10% know me:).

Can get = wheel profile, wheel width, aero bars, aero frames, aero helmets and even position.
Observation: I saw higher profile wheels in the Cat 3s than in the P12 race.

The following items have more aero selections available, generally at a higher weight, but at costs similar to what these riders chose to use. This was in a 28.4mph average speed race where AERO would certainly matter.

I saw no TT helmets.
I saw a very few what appeared to be over 70mm profile wheels.
I did not see any rear discs.
There were no tri-spokes
Tires were a mix of 23 and 25mm, I saw no 19mms
Estimate 80% had round handle bars.
The majority of bikes were round tubes.
There were few skin suits, and one speed suit (my kid)
There were no booties.


https://vimeo.com/129448200

I like the guy doing the cross at the front..

Doge 06-02-15 09:35 AM

Danny Munson does great up close photos and you can see the equipment used in various races.
D Munson Photo | 2015 Races

While I acknowledge what they use does not mean it is the best for that race, it is something to compare to.

ancker 06-02-15 11:49 AM


Originally Posted by Duke of Kent (Post 17854403)
Do they still have Wednesday Worlds like 15mi NE of town? 1mi x 1mi square circuit? Old man Stone still show up?

Wednesday worlds is long gone. Replaced by a Wednesday Hammerfest in the direction of wherever the wind takes us.
Stone is still around and humbles many of us frequently.

KingShakes 06-02-15 12:44 PM

I have a 3.6 mile time trial with some rolling terrain (2.5% grade) and a U turn halfway. I am not experienced with aero bars but was thinking about throwing some on my bike last second for this. Worth it?

caloso 06-02-15 12:59 PM


Originally Posted by vision646 (Post 17855841)
I use something similar, Bag Balm and like Rapwithtom stated its way cheaper than most chamois cream. I think Coscto sells the 10oz jar for ~$4.5, Walgreens ~$7. Probably lasts me a bit more than a year.

More cred if you get your Bag Balm at the feed store.

jsk 06-02-15 02:13 PM


Originally Posted by KingShakes (Post 17859386)
I have a 3.6 mile time trial with some rolling terrain (2.5% grade) and a U turn halfway. I am not experienced with aero bars but was thinking about throwing some on my bike last second for this. Worth it?

In my experience, yes. Even without changing anything else (no seat/stem adjustments), I'm noticeably faster with clip-ons.

ancker 06-02-15 02:34 PM


Originally Posted by Doge (Post 17855633)
See the video of the exiting Cat 3s and milling at the start of a local SoCal good amateur race. The Cat 3s are finishing and leaving, those staging and starting are 30ish Cat 1s, same number of Cat 2s and small handful of pros. I only know 30% of these riders and about 10% know me:).

Can get = wheel profile, wheel width, aero bars, aero frames, aero helmets and even position.
Observation: I saw higher profile wheels in the Cat 3s than in the P12 race.

The following items have more aero selections available, generally at a higher weight, but at costs similar to what these riders chose to use. This was in a 28.4mph average speed race where AERO would certainly matter.

I saw no TT helmets.
I saw a very few what appeared to be over 70mm profile wheels.
I did not see any rear discs.
There were no tri-spokes
Tires were a mix of 23 and 25mm, I saw no 19mms
Estimate 80% had round handle bars.
The majority of bikes were round tubes.
There were few skin suits, and one speed suit (my kid)
There were no booties.

This is a mass-start race...

Why would you expect TT helmets, tri-spokes, rear-discs, skin suits, or booties?
Regardless of whether any of the riders have them, common practice is to not use them in a crit/road race. I do count plenty of 'aero' helmets. So clearly they think the non (or very few) vented helmets give them an advantage over the more common super-vented helmet. At 1:37 in your video, I could 4 out of the 8 visible helmets in the front row as 'aero'.

I know plenty of racers who have a cheap-ish crit bike with 'just good enough' and 'wouldn't cause a divorce if I broke it' equipment, but also have a $10k super-light road beast in the garage. I suggest using equipment selection for a "Local SoCal Amateur Race" isn't the best sample.

Further, I suggest Cat 3s are more likely to have just one set of race wheels. So if they can afford one set of nice deep carbon wheels, they'll ride them in crits, road races, TTs, etc. Whereas a Pro/1/2 might have more wheelsets to pick and choose from for a particular situation. Might explain your observation of more aero gear in the 3s.

I guess my point is that you seem to be making sweeping generalizations based on observations that have an enormous amount of unaccounted for variables.

Doge 06-02-15 02:44 PM


Originally Posted by ancker (Post 17859803)
This is a mass-start race...

Why would you expect TT helmets, tri-spokes, rear-discs, skin suits, or booties? ...

I don't expect it because aero is not the most important thing in each decision of component to buy. If it were - there should be double disks there.

For the context you have to go back a few posts. This was a counter point to aero being more important than weight and an illustration that the most aero stuff is not always used.
It depends on several things what you choose, and as you can see from other pictures and the milling around video (done for [MENTION=123900]tea[/MENTION]tonrider) it is pretty much as you say.

Doge 06-02-15 02:47 PM


Originally Posted by KingShakes (Post 17859386)
I have a 3.6 mile time trial with some rolling terrain (2.5% grade) and a U turn halfway. I am not experienced with aero bars but was thinking about throwing some on my bike last second for this. Worth it?

Do you mean clip on bars (yes), or handlebars that are aero (no).

KingShakes 06-02-15 03:02 PM


Originally Posted by Doge (Post 17859841)
Do you mean clip on bars (yes), or handlebars that are aero (no).

Yep clip on bars.

Doge 06-02-15 03:12 PM


Originally Posted by KingShakes (Post 17859877)
Yep clip on bars.

They will make a significant difference over just being in the drops for two reasons. They get your arms inside as a wind break to your body instead of being outside your body and likely get your torso lower than you would be comfortable riding in drops bending your elbows. The angle between your torso and legs is NOW more acute and you have a smaller total profile facing the wind.
Now the down side...
This may affect your fit/comfort on the bike. Your power may be lower. This position would normally call for the seat being moved forward and higher.

If you are experienced at riding with forearms on the bar tops (I assume you are not) there would be little difference except in the large power sections where you can pull against the clip-on.

If that 2% is going to keep you much under 20mph, you may want to sacrifice the aero and go for comfort and power, however as it is out and back I assume your have some speed on the 2% decent. Aero always matters, just more as speeds get higher.

caloso 06-02-15 03:30 PM


Originally Posted by ancker (Post 17859803)
This is a mass-start race...

Why would you expect TT helmets, tri-spokes, rear-discs, skin suits, or booties?
Regardless of whether any of the riders have them, common practice is to not use them in a crit/road race. I do count plenty of 'aero' helmets. So clearly they think the non (or very few) vented helmets give them an advantage over the more common super-vented helmet. At 1:37 in your video, I could 4 out of the 8 visible helmets in the front row as 'aero'.

I know plenty of racers who have a cheap-ish crit bike with 'just good enough' and 'wouldn't cause a divorce if I broke it' equipment, but also have a $10k super-light road beast in the garage. I suggest using equipment selection for a "Local SoCal Amateur Race" isn't the best sample.

Further, I suggest Cat 3s are more likely to have just one set of race wheels. So if they can afford one set of nice deep carbon wheels, they'll ride them in crits, road races, TTs, etc. Whereas a Pro/1/2 might have more wheelsets to pick and choose from for a particular situation. Might explain your observation of more aero gear in the 3s.

I guess my point is that you seem to be making sweeping generalizations based on observations that have an enormous amount of unaccounted for variables.

Yup. That's me.

KingShakes 06-02-15 03:33 PM


Originally Posted by Doge (Post 17859902)
They will make a significant difference over just being in the drops for two reasons. They get your arms inside as a wind break to your body instead of being outside your body and likely get your torso lower than you would be comfortable riding in drops bending your elbows. The angle between your torso and legs is not more acute and you have a smaller total profile facing the wind.
Now the down side...
This may affect your fit/comfort on the bike. Your power may be lower. This position would normally call for the seat being moved forward and higher.

If you are experienced at riding with forearms on the bar tops (I assume you are not) there would be little difference except in the large power sections where you can pull against the clip-on.

If that 2% is going to keep you much under 20mph, you may want to sacrifice the aero and go for comfort and power, however as it is out and back I assume your have some speed on the 2% decent. Aero always matters, just more as speeds get higher.


Originally Posted by jsk (Post 17859724)
In my experience, yes. Even without changing anything else (no seat/stem adjustments), I'm noticeably faster with clip-ons.

Thanks. I think I'm going to try and set it up without adjusting my saddle position and see if I can get decently comfortable. I have a road race later that day, so I don't want to jack things up too much. Average speed will definitely be over 20 mph, but there will probably be several gear changes desired with the rollers and high wattage on a shorter time trial.

shovelhd 06-02-15 03:36 PM


Originally Posted by caloso (Post 17859432)
More cred if you get your Bag Balm at the feed store.

Thats where I get Udderly Smooth.

Doge 06-02-15 03:42 PM


Originally Posted by ancker (Post 17859803)
...I suggest Cat 3s are more likely to have just one set of race wheels. So if they can afford one set of nice deep carbon wheels, they'll ride them in crits, road races, TTs...

50 seems the best deep. Deeper introduces other issues.
That sail effect in couple testing session I've done works like a real sail that you have to hold. Holding resulted in higher HR for the rider putting the same power into the pedals. I'm assuming from upper body effort required to hold the sail. This is real energy, just not reflected in power meters, but indicated in higher HR.

shovelhd 06-02-15 04:38 PM

56mm is so close to 50mm its academic, and there are plenty of 56mm wheels available.

Doge 06-02-15 05:33 PM


Originally Posted by shovelhd (Post 17860142)
56mm is so close to 50mm its academic, and there are plenty of 56mm wheels available.

Agree. Also 42s. But not 90s or 80s or 92s.

shovelhd 06-02-15 05:45 PM

At least for the front in mass start road and outdoor track races. I run an 80mm rear in crits. So did gsteinb but he may have broken it.

Doge 06-02-15 05:48 PM

Number crinkling is so 2015. I'm burnishing...
Talked to "the guy" ref Sunday about my number crinkling addiction. He showed me how instead of rolling the number into a ball I could burnish it over a rail or corner to soften it without all the creases. I am converted.

He thought the 3M 77 was right on for attaching. I told him about Goo Gone gel to get it off.

shovelhd 06-02-15 05:52 PM

It's the number one cause of missed or incorrect scoring.


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