Racer Tech Thread
07-10-15, 05:03 PM
#2126
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I like data. I'd probably never ride without data again. But I also question the need for absolute perfect data at a significantly higher cost. Enough guys are using Stages that make their living from this stuff that I figure if not already, certainly soon, it'll be in the 'good enough' category. I would not sell my SRMs if it was something like an even swap for a stages. There's no value in that, and for all the talk about SRMs holding their value it's sort of true but not if they're relatively new. You can get good cash out on the back end, not so much if you need a quick sale. I can get a pretty good discount on Stages, and nothing lasts forever so my SRMs are bound to die sometime and I really need a compact at some point.
put pedal in 12 o'clock position. put wrench or hex wrench pointed at front hub. pull up. try not to slam into your own face, tho
it should be noted that when putting on arm warmers I punch myself in the face semi-weekly.
07-10-15, 05:17 PM
#2127
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Just to illustrate my own use case, the 4 bikes are: a road bike with compact crank, cross bike with narrow-wide single ring on 130 BCD, winter bike with single ring on 110 BCD, and single speed with frankenstein 40/42 rings on 110 BCD. there is no other single power meter that could possibly be swapped between these bikes. That the swap can be done so easily is a bonus. Power for all 4 bikes for $600 or whatever my sponsor shop charged me is a ridiculous deal.
Others will have different use cases.
Others will have different use cases.
07-10-15, 05:24 PM
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#notdoingitright
Crankarm pointing down. Wrench pointed toward rear of bike. Step on wrench. Once it has started to unthread, spin it out by hand.
07-10-15, 05:26 PM
#2129
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#notdoingitright
Crankarm pointing down. Wrench pointed toward rear of bike. Step on wrench. Once it has started to unthread, spin it out by hand.
Crankarm pointing down. Wrench pointed toward rear of bike. Step on wrench. Once it has started to unthread, spin it out by hand.
07-10-15, 05:41 PM
#2131
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right--but i think L/R, at least now, is pretty much a novelty in that what do you do with that info? there's nothing that's been shown that a 52-48 balance (or even more extreme) has any impact in a more broad sense.
i for sure would LIKE IT (and wish i had it pre- and post-injury, out of curiosity), but there is nothing to really do with it.
1-leg drills are not a thing that is useful for training (unless people are talking about using a counterweight, which most never seem to do).
i for sure would LIKE IT (and wish i had it pre- and post-injury, out of curiosity), but there is nothing to really do with it.
1-leg drills are not a thing that is useful for training (unless people are talking about using a counterweight, which most never seem to do).
07-10-15, 06:46 PM
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07-10-15, 06:48 PM
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Ferret has a chronic physical issue where L/R balance data is very relevant to his riding. If he feels the need for a meter that can measure this accurately, more power (haha) to him.
07-10-15, 06:57 PM
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As promised, here's my foot after my 4 mile commute home. Medium size thumbnail as I know the forum has a no-gore rule.
Note the business-size envelope for scale. More than a cm wider than the widest commercially available mass-produced shoe. Four hammer toes, including a pinky toe that doesn't touch the ground and instead sits on top there to boot.
I mean, I barely ride 700 hours per year, so shoes that don't draw blood are barely even a consideration. I guess getting a pair of semi-(because I'm too cheap for the full works)-custom shoes is a huge luxury. I don't shill for Riivo or have a financial stake in the business either, but I still get how posting a picture of shoes is the same as shilling for my own home business ( pm sent! ), so I should have gotten the joke the first time. Or the second when you refused to explain it. Anyway, I regret not seeing the parallels sooner.
Similarly, I'm sure I'm glossing over where in the FAQ it's against the guidelines to post a picture of shoes. I keep getting stuck at the "no solicitation" part for some reason.
I regret any discomfort my momentary material joy brought anyone.
tl:dr @tetonrider Dude, I tried to help you in the only race we ever overlapped in and you're still going to try to do me like that? You have to admit that you extol the virtues of a 2k powermeter and an $800 head unit pretty hard any time this discussion comes up AND you just happen to sell them. I didn't even say you should stop, just that you should put it in your sig and own it.
Note the business-size envelope for scale. More than a cm wider than the widest commercially available mass-produced shoe. Four hammer toes, including a pinky toe that doesn't touch the ground and instead sits on top there to boot.
I mean, I barely ride 700 hours per year, so shoes that don't draw blood are barely even a consideration. I guess getting a pair of semi-(because I'm too cheap for the full works)-custom shoes is a huge luxury. I don't shill for Riivo or have a financial stake in the business either, but I still get how posting a picture of shoes is the same as shilling for my own home business ( pm sent!
), so I should have gotten the joke the first time. Or the second when you refused to explain it. Anyway, I regret not seeing the parallels sooner. Similarly, I'm sure I'm glossing over where in the FAQ it's against the guidelines to post a picture of shoes. I keep getting stuck at the "no solicitation" part for some reason.
I regret any discomfort my momentary material joy brought anyone.
tl:dr @tetonrider Dude, I tried to help you in the only race we ever overlapped in and you're still going to try to do me like that? You have to admit that you extol the virtues of a 2k powermeter and an $800 head unit pretty hard any time this discussion comes up AND you just happen to sell them. I didn't even say you should stop, just that you should put it in your sig and own it.
07-10-15, 07:16 PM
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i can swap specialized cranksets in about a minute. it's a small dust-cap and one bolt.
funny story: a friend bought a vector ~18 months ago because he was not a very good mechanic and afraid of swapping cranks. (i get it--the SEEM mysterious.) we both flew to a stage race. as we're building bikes, i notice he has his crank off. he realized the vectors were a PITA to install and get right (for an average traveling mechanic) that he found it easier to just pull the cranks.
that was before he experienced numerous issues like having a TT where 1/2 the power dropped out, etc., and dumped them.
anyway....
for swaps, PT is probably the easiest but doesn't work so well between MTB & road!
otherwise, a crank arm vs a crank is pretty much a non-existent gap for most competent mechanics. pedals seem easier (but in practice many people have trouble even with ANY pedal removal) and maybe the new ones will prove to actually be easier. 'right-tighty' fails many otherwise intelligent people w/r/t pedals, though, power aside.
no road bike mechanic stuff is complex, but some is intimidating at first. kind of like installing ski bindings.
funny story: a friend bought a vector ~18 months ago because he was not a very good mechanic and afraid of swapping cranks. (i get it--the SEEM mysterious.) we both flew to a stage race. as we're building bikes, i notice he has his crank off. he realized the vectors were a PITA to install and get right (for an average traveling mechanic) that he found it easier to just pull the cranks.
that was before he experienced numerous issues like having a TT where 1/2 the power dropped out, etc., and dumped them.
anyway....
for swaps, PT is probably the easiest but doesn't work so well between MTB & road!
otherwise, a crank arm vs a crank is pretty much a non-existent gap for most competent mechanics. pedals seem easier (but in practice many people have trouble even with ANY pedal removal) and maybe the new ones will prove to actually be easier. 'right-tighty' fails many otherwise intelligent people w/r/t pedals, though, power aside.
no road bike mechanic stuff is complex, but some is intimidating at first. kind of like installing ski bindings.
A much more succinct post than my drivel and spot on!
Last edited by furiousferret; 07-10-15 at 07:19 PM.
07-10-15, 07:29 PM
#2137
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Chris .. You need to custom shoes.probably all the time. Or if you ever find a shoe that does not trash your foot.. Buy like 20 pair
07-10-15, 08:52 PM
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Eh, I don't really look at it this metric too closely to be honest. I'll typically glance at it after uploading TT data to training peaks and think "huh, ok" and move on. Also, I believe it is pseudo L/R in that it assumes the upstroke (??) on the drive side is due to the downstroke on the non drive side.
07-10-15, 11:05 PM
#2143
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don't you recall that time years ago when you were pissed off at me writing race reports or whatever else you were angry about from your teen years...and you wrote how you would have beaten me at the EC if you didn't have hotfoot? your comments on the shoes reminded me of it. it was pretty ridic and an amusing thing to say.
and you're still going to try to do me like that? You have to admit that you extol the virtues of a 2k powermeter and an $800 head unit pretty hard any time this discussion comes up AND you just happen to sell them. I didn't even say you should stop, just that you should put it in your sig and own it.
we're talking about pros and cons of power meters. i give an opinion informed by years of experience with a number of power meters that many people haven't had. many here appreciate it. i've helped people get things they otherwise couldn't afford, and i've helped people who have come to me at the end of their rope with other devices. i've also hooked people up with used and refurb units.
don't you get it? you made a comment about how value, overpriced, etc, as if your opinion is universal for anyone's personal purchasing decision. anyone could make the same comments about your shoes...but you'll notice we didn't. you kind of have your head up your @ss here.
i know you are threatened by people who actually have something informed to say based on their own research and effort, but try to get over it. people who know stuff are actually GOOD for a community discussion. you don't have to announce that you have nothing to add just to be heard.
07-10-15, 11:12 PM
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Eh, I don't really look at it this metric too closely to be honest. I'll typically glance at it after uploading TT data to training peaks and think "huh, ok" and move on. Also, I believe it is pseudo L/R in that it assumes the upstroke (??) on the drive side is due to the downstroke on the non drive side.
if i really wanted to know L/R balance, pioneer would be my choice.
there is some cool stuff you can do --gross power absorbed, power released, max effective pedal force (single leg--can show how cycling is NOT strength-limited!)....balance over the P-D curve.
there's not much to DO about any of this, but it is pretty cool to look at. and like i said above, i wish i had some measure of L/R balance before breaking my femur vs after...just to add some data to the sensations i have on the bike now.
there are lots of dropouts (e.g. with Garmins where data is temporarily missing from one side or out of sync with the other), and this can skew the data a bit.
i've never come across any practical use for the data--it's definitely "huh..interesting" stuff at the top level (like what you look at) and maybe even a bit more at the deeper level, but it ends there. maybe someone will come up with something cool. @furiousferret seems to like it, but, again, what to do with it?
if you wanted to send me some files, i can do some analysis for you.
07-10-15, 11:15 PM
#2145
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Once my Vectors are set and the power is good I don't like mucking with it just to be safe. It is more of a pain to install than it should be. There isn't a torque wrench that fits the pedal well, making sure you don't snap a pod (I've snapped 2), and because I'm dyslexic I forget which way to screw em! Typically, the torquing doesn't affect power but it can...maybe one out of every 15 swaps?
there are some scenarios, like a tandem, where pedal-based power is really the only way to go. i also have a friend who is wed to some spin bike at home, and his only option is pedals.
bummer they don't include the torque wrench adaptor with the pedals....it's the least they could do as you HAVE to get that right. (not that using a torque wrench properly is something everyone can do, despite seeming obvious.)
07-11-15, 07:22 AM
#2146
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^ my vectors came with a torque wrench adapter...
the new (black) pods do look easier to install... I hate how the other ones kinda rotate during tightening.
the new (black) pods do look easier to install... I hate how the other ones kinda rotate during tightening.
07-11-15, 07:24 AM
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I also have Riivo shoes. They are OK. They are not the panacea for me that they are for Fudgy. I also have thought about cutting off my pinkie toes so that my feet would fit in normal shoes. And cycling shoes aren't the only type of shoes I spend a lot of money on. It's damn near impossible to find comfortable shoes for feet as wide as mine for little money.
And Stages seems great to me. When people ask what PM to go with, I usually suggest it because it seems pretty reliable and is affordable. But I have OCD issues. I like Sram and don't want a Shimano crank, and I don't like the idea of mis-matched arms to have a Sram stages. Also, I saw a photo of the Stages on the Sky bikes. It looks like they have a PM in both arms, not just left side.
If I didn't have a PM and were to buy one now, I'd probably go with Pioneer. The price is good and the amount of data seems pretty awesome.
As far as Vector goes, I think I read they fixed the problem with installing it in their latest version.
Lastly, when I had my Quarq, I looked at L/R balance a lot, mostly because I was coming back from a major knee injury. I was almost always at 51/49. Sometimes it would be 52/48 or 53/47, but those instances were rare. Since it was so close so much, I stopped worrying about it.
And Stages seems great to me. When people ask what PM to go with, I usually suggest it because it seems pretty reliable and is affordable. But I have OCD issues. I like Sram and don't want a Shimano crank, and I don't like the idea of mis-matched arms to have a Sram stages. Also, I saw a photo of the Stages on the Sky bikes. It looks like they have a PM in both arms, not just left side.
If I didn't have a PM and were to buy one now, I'd probably go with Pioneer. The price is good and the amount of data seems pretty awesome.
As far as Vector goes, I think I read they fixed the problem with installing it in their latest version.
Lastly, when I had my Quarq, I looked at L/R balance a lot, mostly because I was coming back from a major knee injury. I was almost always at 51/49. Sometimes it would be 52/48 or 53/47, but those instances were rare. Since it was so close so much, I stopped worrying about it.
07-11-15, 08:27 AM
#2148
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@Ygduf and @tetonrider, can you go hate each other somewhere else? It's boring for the rest of us.
07-11-15, 10:23 AM
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@Ygduf and @tetonrider, can you go hate each other somewhere else? It's boring for the rest of us.
