revchuck 

For context, this was circa 1970.

tetonrider

i'm aware. i wasn't in college in 1970, but for as l long as i've been involved in audio the idea of adding more weight to something that wasn't designed for it has bugged me.

was also just adding a detail on the vertical tracking force of modern cartridges in case you weren't using one these days. traceability isn't directly correlated to tracking force.

Doge

I agree. The weight is less of an issue although I have balanced some TT wheels.

The latest cx tubular rims Mercury sent me had a c'sink around the valve hole. With a big 33mm on there, it was the least important of all wheels for a counter sink, but it was a nice touch. I sometimes take a razor to the tape on the valve.

rubiksoval

Found a wheels manufacturing bb with the angled bearings for 62 bucks, so ordered that. Thanks for the input, fellas!

rubiksoval

Anyone still riding tubulars? Just bought a pair of Hed Stingers. Need some tubulars. Thinking the Zipp Tangente SL whatever in 24mm as I've had one in the past I really liked.

The Vitorria Corsa G+ is appealing, too, save for the price tag.

Conti is out because butyl is for slow people.

revchuck 

Check with your local Specialized shop. The original Turbo Allround is on close out for $50 in 700x24.

rubiksoval

Thanks.

I had turbo clinchers a few years ago that were awful. Horrendous grip. Similar issue with the turbo or resolved?

I haven't been in a bike shop in years, but could probably find one online.

Costco hot dogs

The "new" ones ca 2016 are vittoria (Thailand) casings, latex tubed, and new gripton tread. about a million times better than the old turbos.

rubiksoval

Thanks!

revchuck 

To be honest, I haven't ridden the tubular version. I've ridden the current Turbo Pro and S-Works Turbo clinchers, though, and they're good. My S-Works Turbo Cottons will be in tomorrow.

mattm

**** - now you tell me!

Just got a Conti "Competition" glued up this weekend.. for some reason I assumed they were latex.

tetonrider

dude... that has been covered SOOOO many times!

unless you are a pro rider or you get your tubes replaced with latex (not such a huge deal), you're running butyl Contis and they don't roll nearly as well/fast as the latex version.

really a shame they don't make a version with latex tubes available at retail--they are so much nicer.

tetonrider

i've got some vittoria evo CX II & IIIs (same thing) in 700x23 and a couple corsa G+, also in 700x23.

could probably hook you up if it helps.

both are excellent and the evo cx's would be a bit cheaper.

rubiksoval

Thanks! Appreciate it. One wheel has a CX III in 25mm on it. Those look like they're getting hard to find. Only see MerlinCycles with one for 50 bucks. That was my default tire choice until I noted their availability. May still go with it to match up, then move to something newer when they need to swap out.

Have always used 23mm in the past, and have 23mm Contis on my 27mm clincher rims (which are more like 26), so might keep with the 25s for the time being. These are going to be my "big-money crit" wheels, so curious to see if the wider tire helps with cornering any.

Matt2.8NJ

I've just moved from 22mm Conti Comps to the 25mm size tubies (on a 21mm wide carbon rim) and it's a noticeable change in handling - neither good nor bad (depends on your perspective). They do feel slightly more surefooted, but as to absolute grip on dry pavement - dunno.

I've also been running at 90psi and they certainly feel great in terms of bump handling though.

tetonrider

sure--just let me know. i get stuff for cost and have these hanging in my garage--i can always get more if it helps you out in the short term. i have no short-term need.

maybe you'll notice some difference in handling between 23 & 25c. 23c is always more aero, even on wider rims, if that sort of thing matters. (more an issue in the front)

a while back zipp used to promote how their wheels took less of an aero hit with wider tires, but they were still best/fastest with narrower tires.

there are other reasons to go with wider tires on wider rims. WT teams started doing this because they might flat and ride on the rim for a bit, and the wider tire might save that rim -- it wasn't for lower rolling resistance as is often repeated.

burnthesheep

On gearing.........

Purely from a TT point of view, the big ring:
If I currently only have a 50T and do both pan flat and rolling TT's, would you up the game to at least a 53 if you've spun out on minor downhills and with heavy wind at your back? It is a TT, and time counts. And cross chaining or using the small rear cogs is wasted watts. Let's assume it matters and I'm not the noob even though I am. My TT bike will be my aero road bike for a LONG time, no money. But, I can afford a chainring or spare crankset I swap over.

From the road point of view, the big ring:
If I did throw on a 53T, I feel I'll keep myself from cross chaining the big-big all the time because I won't be able to push a 53T up the hill like I can a 50T. I don't see that as a problem necessarily, but maybe an improvement. I know there's newer opinions on cross chaining vs using the big ring but I feel that going fully big-big a little excessive.

The rear cogs:
Any of you routinely swap the rear so you get a tighter spread? Like if I was doing a pan flat TT going with a 12-23 and having that really tight gearing versus keeping the "catch all" 11-28 on there.

revchuck 

My take, from a non-TT POV: You may want to go to a 52/36, as it gives you most of the advantages of both a standard and a compact crankset and you won’t have to mess with swapping chainrings. On the cassette, I go with the tightest ratio I can. On my 11-speed bike I usually run a 12-25, which is basically a 12-23 with an extra cog. It’s flat enough where I live that I don’t need bigger cogs and I’m too old and feeble to spin out a 50-12 without a hill. As always, YMMV.

furiousferret

I have a compact on my TT bike and I spin out a lot; it doesn't even have to be a big tailwind and I'm not pushing big watts to do it either. I'm definitely going to the 53; you probably should as well. There aren't many TT's with big hills in them so I would take that equation out, unless you're a triathlete that shouldn't be a concern.

jsk

I would certainly consider 50T undergeared for a TT bike. As you say it doesn't take much of a tailwind or decline to be pushing 30+ and even if you're not completely spun out it's still inefficient to be in the 11 cog spinning a higher cadence than preferred. I run 55T and still find myself in the 11 cog sometimes, if I could get a 58T that fit the proprietary bolt-spacing on my shimano crankset I would (if for no other reason than a straighter chainline).

As far as cassette goes, I do have 11-23 on there currently, but after thinking about it there's not much point. Those first few cogs are only used for standing start and turnarounds, once you're up to speed you're going to be on the smaller cogs anyway. Whether your 1/2/3 cogs are 28/25/23 or 23/21/19 isn't going to make any difference unless you're actually going uphill (in which case the greater spread is more useful). So IMHO no reason to prefer a 11-23 over an 11-25 or possibly even an 11-28 for TT's.

With Di2 I have no problem using small-chainring when appropriate and I never go big-big (have synchro-shift set up to prevent it). Unless you train & race in the mountains I see no reason for 50/34. I run 53/39 but mostly train/race on flattish roads with some rollers but no real climbing. As Chuck mentioned 52/36 is a good compromise, it's actually more versatile due to the greater spread between large/small. You're only giving up 1T on the big ring but you "gain" 3 on the small ring.

For road riding/racing my catch-all cassette is a 11-25, I do have an 11-30 I can put on if I'm traveling somewhere with real climbing but that's only a couple times a year (if that).

Ttoc6

When I lived in SEA I could get away with a standard 53/39 on the road bike. Now that I live in the mountains the 36-28 is a huge blessing with some races where I'd want smaller.

For TT's I'm currently using a 53 qring with an 11-25. The tighter spacing is awesome, but there have been times I'd have liked a bigger front ring for the better chainline. I'll probably eventually go to a 1x on the tt bike with a 53, 54 or 55.

If I were racing on the same bike for road and TT I'd probably do a 52/36 so I had the option the go back down to 50/34 for the steep road races. If you go to 53/39 you have 130BCD which isn't gonna be compatible with your other rings.

Ttoc6

Need derailleur pulley advice. I've got one major race weekend left on this bike before it goes to trainer duty and gets replaced, but unfortunately the bearings are shot in the headset, derailleur pulleys and bb. Creaky and I can feel the individual ball-bearings in my bottom bracket when I rotate it with my finger. Already decided I'm going to get a hawk racing bb30 bottom bracket since it should last a long time, has good reviews and tests well from friction facts. When it's time to move onto the new bike the nice bottom bracket bearings will move to my cross bike with the power meter.

Derailleur pulleys I'm not sure about. Too many options out there and I don't have the friction facts document from that one. Currently running dura-ace 11sp and I'm probably going to move whatever I get here over onto my tt bike since my next bike won't be shimano. Any suggestions. I know the hawk racing ones are good, but are they worth the doubled price?

tetonrider

answer is "probably not."

then again, pulleys are not that pricey, so 2x is also not that pricey.

the shimano ones are fine... better than fine, actually.

bearings that are *better* often make some sacrifice that you experience down the road (eg running lighter lube, which means more frequent servicing to maintain performance -- or *worse* performance if you do not maintain them).

tetonrider

with the riding i've seen from you, i don't think you'd need anything less than 39x28 for any race i've done in UT-CO-AZ-NM-CA-NV-OR.

i'm more of a spinner, and i've had situations where i *needed* that 53x11 (yes). the 34x28 was nice for the Everest Challenge from back in the day, though.

seriously--the climbs aren't *that* steep or *that* long.

TT -- yes, get a 55. don't go 1x.

Ttoc6

But man is it nice to not be sitting at 60 RPM when I climb anything steep in training. Seriously, the first time I climbed Teton pass on a 39 I averaged 62RPM for the long-steep bit of old pass road. North Ogden divide is steep as well and I'll more than likely be doing a race that finishes (after 100+ mi) up a climb to Powder mountain. Though, I'll probably be specifically changing gearing for that race because I'm told that's a steep road in a car, let alone on a bike.

Got it. I'll find one and change it out after my next stage race. Starts out with a decent punch of like 4% then keeps going up very gradually until the turn around. I'm sure I'd want the bigger gear on the way back though. I'll keep an eye on the aftermarkets.

Wanted to go 1x to get something cool from fiberlyte or the like. Save the few g of drags from removing the front d and go for that cool modern look.