Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

2014 TdF Thread?

Old 07-24-14, 06:34 PM
  #276  
YMCA
starting pistol means war
 
YMCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,150

Bikes: Cervelo R3

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Moyene Corniche View Post
I respect Nibali but let's keep it real. he has a long palmare to fill before he can approach Indurain, let alone Hinault.
I suppose, but cmon, the way Nibali took the Classics guys out on the cobbled stage. That was genius. Barring Boom.
YMCA is offline  
Old 07-24-14, 08:35 PM
  #277  
Ygduf
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
After that Jack Bauer stage, I was making jokes about sprinters stealing things. Well, this sea lion is totally a sprinter.

Ygduf is offline  
Old 07-24-14, 09:13 PM
  #278  
botto 
.
 
botto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 40,375
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by Moyene Corniche View Post
The reference is to the 13 TT wins by Hinault. All 13 in the TDF.
As far as best all rounder, Big Mig eclipses Nibali in that domain as Indurain was also well capable of winning a sprint, TT or Mountain Stage.
I respect Nibali but let's keep it real. he has a long palmare to fill before he can approach Indurain, let alone Hinault.
corny moy luvs the doperz.
botto is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 07:23 AM
  #279  
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,840
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by YMCA View Post
I suppose, but cmon, the way Nibali took the Classics guys out on the cobbled stage. That was genius. Barring Boom.
agree. he hasnt put a wrong foot forward in this TdF, and is clearly the class of the field just as he was when he won the giro last year. great bad weather rider too. honestly, to me, his giro 2013 and TdF this year remind me of performances by "he whose name must not be spoken" circa late 90s early 2000s.

*and to clarify, i'm not suggesting anything untoward.
MDcatV is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 08:04 AM
  #280  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,441
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 912 Post(s)
Liked 751 Times in 342 Posts
So are we pretending these guys are clean, or do we just not care anymore?
gsteinb is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 08:15 AM
  #281  
save10
Arrogant Roadie Punk
 
save10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: California
Posts: 2,353
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
So are we pretending these guys are clean, or do we just not care anymore?
for me its both i think.

Re: Nibali specifically - i am not presuming him to be dirty. nor am i trolling the internet for evidence to say otherwise.
save10 is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 09:00 AM
  #282  
Creatre
These Guys Eat Oreos
 
Creatre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Superior, CO
Posts: 3,432

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think Nibali's past is iffy at best. However at least he's not just embarrassing the rest of the field (ala froome). I mean until yesterday he really hadn't left everyone in the dust. Considering he really was probably third favorite for the tour, the big time gap really hasn't been from like overpowering mountain finishes, it's just because his two main rivals on the same level weren't there and he had gained some great time on other non mountain stages. To me, it's a very believable TdF winner, very all around, very impressive overall performance. But who knows really.
Creatre is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 09:12 AM
  #283  
thechemist
In the Pain Cave
 
thechemist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,672
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Creatre View Post
I think Nibali's past is iffy at best. However at least he's not just embarrassing the rest of the field (ala froome). I mean until yesterday he really hadn't left everyone in the dust. Considering he really was probably third favorite for the tour, the big time gap really hasn't been from like overpowering mountain finishes, it's just because his two main rivals on the same level weren't there and he had gained some great time on other non mountain stages. To me, it's a very believable TdF winner, very all around, very impressive overall performance. But who knows really.

I agree. Not to mention, the mountain stages have been shorter and I wouldn't say that this tour was as hard as the past tours aside from the climate. Not to mention, Nibali can set a pretty steady pace climbing. He doesn't have to jump on attacks and that can really make a difference.


BTW, those kemo bikes are SICK!! wish they were sold in the USA.
thechemist is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 09:13 AM
  #284  
thechemist
In the Pain Cave
 
thechemist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,672
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The physiology at the front of the Tour - The Science of Sport
thechemist is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 09:15 AM
  #285  
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,840
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
So are we pretending these guys are clean, or do we just not care anymore?
just don't care
MDcatV is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 09:18 AM
  #286  
echappist
fuggitivo solitario
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 9,107
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 243 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Creatre View Post
I think Nibali's past is iffy at best. However at least he's not just embarrassing the rest of the field (ala froome). I mean until yesterday he really hadn't left everyone in the dust. Considering he really was probably third favorite for the tour, the big time gap really hasn't been from like overpowering mountain finishes, it's just because his two main rivals on the same level weren't there and he had gained some great time on other non mountain stages. To me, it's a very believable TdF winner, very all around, very impressive overall performance. But who knows really.
he's about 7 minutes ahead, 2 of those from the cobbled stage.

He gained 1 min on everyone yesterday and 50 seconds on the stage that Contador crashed out. Those are significant chunks of time, and this doesn't include the stages where only Peraud stayed with him and everyone else conceded more than a minute. He never lost time to anyone on the mountains. If that's not overpowering, i'm not sure what is
echappist is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 09:30 AM
  #287  
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,840
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by echappist View Post
he's about 7 minutes ahead, 2 of those from the cobbled stage.

He gained 1 min on everyone yesterday and 50 seconds on the stage that Contador crashed out. Those are significant chunks of time, and this doesn't include the stages where only Peraud stayed with him and everyone else conceded more than a minute. He never lost time to anyone on the mountains. If that's not overpowering, i'm not sure what is
+1.

Creatre, are you sure you're watching the current 2014 tour de france? this is an absolute dominant performance. no one else is remotely close to him.
MDcatV is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 09:34 AM
  #288  
Creatre
These Guys Eat Oreos
 
Creatre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Superior, CO
Posts: 3,432

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by echappist View Post
he's about 7 minutes ahead, 2 of those from the cobbled stage.

He gained 1 min on everyone yesterday and 50 seconds on the stage that Contador crashed out. Those are significant chunks of time, and this doesn't include the stages where only Peraud stayed with him and everyone else conceded more than a minute. He never lost time to anyone on the mountains. If that's not overpowering, i'm not sure what is
Yeah but it's different. He's been slowing chipping away at it with consistancy. And has really had overall a really good tour where he made no mistakes. He's also had other people generally climbing around the same level as him, other than yesterday. But still yesterday, his time was like 26th best up that climb or something, nothing amazing for recent tour winners. It's different than froome (or contador of old) where there is a pack of 3 or 4 of the best climbers of the world all on the max, and he just rides away from them like they are doing z2. Not to mention if Contador and Froome were still here he'd likely be in second or third, and that 7 minutes would be gone. The 7 minutes to me is not amazing simply because there is no one else that was on his level for this tour because of the two other main favorites crashing out.
Creatre is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 09:35 AM
  #289  
Creatre
These Guys Eat Oreos
 
Creatre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Superior, CO
Posts: 3,432

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Great ride today by Garmin. Like seeing those risky impressive performances that pay off!
Creatre is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 09:49 AM
  #290  
save10
Arrogant Roadie Punk
 
save10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: California
Posts: 2,353
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
+1.

Creatre, are you sure you're watching the current 2014 tour de france? this is an absolute dominant performance. no one else is remotely close to him.
i think it also speaks to the fact the the french guys we are rooting for and TVG and others are really at this point 2nd tier guys. Had Nairo been in the race, Froomey/Contador not crashed out, the time gaps to Thibot and others would probably be the same if not more and instead of podiums those guys would be fiighting spots 6-7-8.
save10 is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 10:15 AM
  #291  
Creatre
These Guys Eat Oreos
 
Creatre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Superior, CO
Posts: 3,432

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by save10 View Post
i think it also speaks to the fact the the french guys we are rooting for and TVG and others are really at this point 2nd tier guys. Had Nairo been in the race, Froomey/Contador not crashed out, the time gaps to Thibot and others would probably be the same if not more and instead of podiums those guys would be fiighting spots 6-7-8.
^ Agreed.
Creatre is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 10:43 AM
  #292  
rankin116
Senior Member
 
rankin116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ChapelBorro NC
Posts: 4,126
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by save10 View Post
i think it also speaks to the fact the the french guys we are rooting for and TVG and others are really at this point 2nd tier guys. Had Nairo been in the race, Froomey/Contador not crashed out, the time gaps to Thibot and others would probably be the same if not more and instead of podiums those guys would be fiighting spots 6-7-8.
Plus people stopped racing Nibali a while ago, they're racing each other for the podium spots. No one is going to chase him with the possibility of blowing up and losing their spot on the podium so they're all playing it safe and racing each other. I think that's making Nibali look more dominant but I don't think anyone in the race cares what he's doing now.
rankin116 is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 12:33 PM
  #293  
ShutUpLegs
Senior Member
 
ShutUpLegs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Mount Joy, PA
Posts: 315

Bikes: CAAD10 & Slice RS Black Inc

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rankin116 View Post
Plus people stopped racing Nibali a while ago, they're racing each other for the podium spots. No one is going to chase him with the possibility of blowing up and losing their spot on the podium so they're all playing it safe and racing each other. I think that's making Nibali look more dominant but I don't think anyone in the race cares what he's doing now.
Agree with this statement the most and I think it is the reason he has the gap that he does. Pinot was not going to follow Nibali yesterday because of risk of blowing up. I think once he had his 3+ minute lead the others really had given up hope of winning because barring any crash he was on another level. I don't blame them really, for Valverde this was his last shot and going into the tour he knew it would be near impossible for him to hang with Froome, Contador and Nibbles for a top 3. All of a sudden he is second and has a shot. It's been great racing for the podium regardless and I think Nibali is a great all around rider. Would have been interesting to see how he handled the attacks from Froome and Contador.
ShutUpLegs is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 12:41 PM
  #294  
eja_ bottecchia
Senior Member
 
eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,760
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1001 Post(s)
Liked 442 Times in 283 Posts
Uncle Liggett is finally beginning to grow on me..."lumpy" course indeed!

Now back to arguing about who is the best in this year's Tour.
eja_ bottecchia is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 12:43 PM
  #295  
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,401
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1097 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 30 Posts
garmin was less faily today, good for them.

was as about to suggest they just pack it up and come back to "dominate" the US racing scene.

as for nibali, he had to ride the same courses that crashed out the other favorites - not his fault they had bad luck/couldn't stay upright.
__________________
cat 1.

my race videos
mattm is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 01:49 PM
  #296  
save10
Arrogant Roadie Punk
 
save10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: California
Posts: 2,353
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mattm View Post
garmin was less faily today, good for them.
i'm pretty sure they just did that to spite you
save10 is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 03:19 PM
  #297  
grolby
Senior Member
 
grolby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BOSTON BABY
Posts: 9,723
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 260 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 41 Posts
Originally Posted by Creatre View Post
I think Nibali's past is iffy at best. However at least he's not just embarrassing the rest of the field (ala froome). I mean until yesterday he really hadn't left everyone in the dust. Considering he really was probably third favorite for the tour, the big time gap really hasn't been from like overpowering mountain finishes, it's just because his two main rivals on the same level weren't there and he had gained some great time on other non mountain stages. To me, it's a very believable TdF winner, very all around, very impressive overall performance. But who knows really.
Not sure what's iffy about Nibali's past; he has a history of being strongly opinionated about doping and dopers. Doesn't mean it can't be all a cynical self-defense strategy, but he doesn't have any history of suspicion that I am aware of.

And as already pointed out, I think it's hugely misleading to say that Nibali's "dominant" performance is evidence of doping. He's been the only true elite GC rider in the race since stage 10. No one else has given us reason to think, in the past, they should be at his level now - at least not yet. So between no one else really being in a position to challenge, plus the single biggest chunk of time he gained on the rest being due to skillful riding on the cobbles, plus no one really racing against him in the Pyrenees, since they clearly couldn't do enough to win, you get the result we have.

None of that means that we shouldn't have any skepticism, the post linked to by thechemist is a great summary of where things stand and a good guide to forming opinions about the "believability" of Nibali's performance IMO. But I personally can't go through life just assuming every good performance is due to cheating, and I have no less reason to trust that Nibali is clean than I did Sastre, or Evans, or Wiggins or Froome. Those guys could all have been on the sauce when they won, but I don't have any particular reason to believe that other than that they won. Someone has to win the damn thing, and even a dominant win isn't necessarily evidence of cheating. Nibali SHOULD be dominating this competition.
grolby is offline  
Old 07-25-14, 03:22 PM
  #298  
grolby
Senior Member
 
grolby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BOSTON BABY
Posts: 9,723
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 260 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 41 Posts
Originally Posted by mattm View Post
garmin was less faily today, good for them.

was as about to suggest they just pack it up and come back to "dominate" the US racing scene.

as for nibali, he had to ride the same courses that crashed out the other favorites - not his fault they had bad luck/couldn't stay upright.
Not sure what you have against Garmin, but pulling off wins with smart, strong rides isn't actually out of character for them. They've got at least one stage win at the Tour for four consecutive years, now. At some point, that's not a fluke.
grolby is offline  
Old 07-26-14, 04:17 PM
  #299  
mollusk
Elite Fred
 
mollusk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edge City
Posts: 10,914

Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked 32 Times in 12 Posts
I know that YMCA got some **** for comparing Nibali to Hinault. but I agree. He was awesome in every aspect and dominated with winning stages in the pursuit. Now Nibali just has to do it 4 more times to make it officially on the same level.

Last edited by PhotoJoe; 07-26-14 at 05:52 PM. Reason: fixed spelling bypassing censor.
mollusk is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
f1seb
Professional Cycling For the Fans
5
07-09-14 08:48 PM
Caretaker
Professional Cycling For the Fans
33
06-01-14 10:34 AM
bigbadwullf
Fifty Plus (50+)
3
07-03-12 09:18 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.