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Old 03-21-17, 10:46 PM
  #17776  
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My advice about cars since moving and due to my 16 year old Accord broke down the day we moved: call BMW dealerships. BMWs (base models) are sometimes leased out to large corporations for expats that come here for a few months to a few years, and then they're given right back to BMW still practically brand new. I got one with 2,000 miles for about half price. Same price as a Civic. And still under warranty for a few years with free maintenance. The dealership I went to had like, 20 of the same car for sale on the lot. It's not a stick shift turbo-diesel wagon, but it's decent for now.
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Old 03-22-17, 12:06 AM
  #17777  
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Came really close to pulling the trigger on a good deal on the (white) Golf, but at the last second the dealer said I couldn't put more than $1k down on their 4.99% APR 60-month loan so I walked.

The way they are structuring this deal I can't even finance it through my bank or they'll redo the whole offer (for a worse price). The good price on the car is linked to their ****ty loan, it seems.

They kept saying I could pay it off early anyway, so it shouldn't matter to me - but it looks like I would have to pay the full interest on the total no matter when I paid it off, which is not what I'm looking for.. **** is complicated.

Lucky for me they aren't the only game in town, I'm not in a rush, and so far the VW dealerships are willing to match each other's deals.

Must be tough for dealers these days, what with TrueCar and all - people come in with crazy good deals, then want to negotiate for more off, etc. But they've created this monster of negotiating everything and keeping customers blind, so I don't feel too bad.
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Old 03-22-17, 03:52 AM
  #17778  
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Originally Posted by Flatballer View Post
I think our ideal two cars right now would be a minivan for my wife and a wagon for me. I'd love a new Mazda 6 wagon but they don't sell them here. A new Volvo V90 would be cool.

Minivan will probably come with kid two. One is fine in the crossover, but not ideal. And the car seat doesn't really fit in my mazdaspeed3 small wagon.
FWIW, I was looking for a small wagon and couldn't find one that I could afford - the choices start at the Volvo/BMW level. I ended up with a Ford Focus hatchback, which is about 95% of what a wagon would be. I'm 6'2" and I fit comfortably in it, though the seat is all the way back. Grandkid #3 fits comfortably behind me in a booster seat and based on experience, a car seat would fit too. My bike fits with the rear seat folded down and the front wheel off, and it's a 58 with 807mm saddle height, so it's tall. Pretty happy with it overall. Biggest downside is road noise at highway speed, especially on concrete, tarmac isn't too bad.
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Old 03-22-17, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Came really close to pulling the trigger on a good deal on the (white) Golf, but at the last second the dealer said I couldn't put more than $1k down on their 4.99% APR 60-month loan so I walked.

The way they are structuring this deal I can't even finance it through my bank or they'll redo the whole offer (for a worse price). The good price on the car is linked to their ****ty loan, it seems.

They kept saying I could pay it off early anyway, so it shouldn't matter to me - but it looks like I would have to pay the full interest on the total no matter when I paid it off, which is not what I'm looking for.. **** is complicated.

Lucky for me they aren't the only game in town, I'm not in a rush, and so far the VW dealerships are willing to match each other's deals.

Must be tough for dealers these days, what with TrueCar and all - people come in with crazy good deals, then want to negotiate for more off, etc. But they've created this monster of negotiating everything and keeping customers blind, so I don't feel too bad.
Yikes. Yeah, definitely find a new dealership. That's really not how it's supposed to work, at all.

They should give you their best out the door number and you can pay for it however you want.
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Old 03-22-17, 05:41 AM
  #17780  
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Thinking of getting a new car (vw golf), debating between white & black.

Been reading horror stories about "swirl marks" on black cars, having to spend a day washing it yourself (instead of automatic car washes, which is what I do now).

What does the bf braintrust say??
Don't buy a black car. After working in a detail shop for 7.5 years I will never have a black car. Ever
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Old 03-22-17, 06:06 AM
  #17781  
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Originally Posted by Wylde06 View Post
Don't buy a black car. After working in a detail shop for 7.5 years I will never have a black car. Ever
Ooops, just bought a black used Honda Fit. My daughter has "adopted" it. Nice little car.

I got Grandma's had-me-down 2005 Accord, which is an upgrade to my 1997 Accord with 256k miles (and blown transmission)
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Old 03-22-17, 07:08 AM
  #17782  
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I traded in my 2003 Camry with 180k mi for a CPO 2014 camry. It's by far the nicest car I've ever had. I also put a huge premium on low maintenance.

Not super practical for racing, but I'm not doing much of that anyways.
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Old 03-22-17, 07:08 AM
  #17783  
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That dealer sounds awful.

We bought my wife a new CRV a week and a half ago. The dealer was kind of sketchy when I was asking questions about financing rates, just promising to get me a great rate. I went ahead and lined up outside financing, but once I got into the finance office, they got me 2.3%, which I was happy with. (Really, I wanted to get the 0.9% rate being offered on 2016 CRVs, but apparently the one we went with did not qualify because it had been used as a dealer loaner, so it had 1,200 miles on it, but they knocked $6k off the price, so I can't complain too much.)

Before that, I bought my BMW about four years ago. It was an off-lease model with 8k miles on it and still had one year left on the factory warranty. Even extending the warranty two more years, it was still priced lower than my previous pick up truck (trucks and minivans are so expensive) and my wife's Prius and CRV. The finance guy there offered me 0.9% for either 3 or 4 years - I went 4. He also offered me 4% and BMW would cover the first three payments. Had I known about that option and done the math and refinancing calculations before hand, I might have done that. He also convinced me to not put as much down because the interest rates were so low.

One other thing I've noticed, why do all car dealership finance guys wear Rolexes?
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Old 03-22-17, 07:21 AM
  #17784  
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AMA: I have not owned a car in 12 years
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Old 03-22-17, 08:07 AM
  #17785  
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Came really close to pulling the trigger on a good deal on the (white) Golf, but at the last second the dealer said I couldn't put more than $1k down on their 4.99% APR 60-month loan so I walked.

The way they are structuring this deal I can't even finance it through my bank or they'll redo the whole offer (for a worse price). The good price on the car is linked to their ****ty loan, it seems.

They kept saying I could pay it off early anyway, so it shouldn't matter to me - but it looks like I would have to pay the full interest on the total no matter when I paid it off, which is not what I'm looking for.. **** is complicated.

Lucky for me they aren't the only game in town, I'm not in a rush, and so far the VW dealerships are willing to match each other's deals.

Must be tough for dealers these days, what with TrueCar and all - people come in with crazy good deals, then want to negotiate for more off, etc. But they've created this monster of negotiating everything and keeping customers blind, so I don't feel too bad.

I think that's unlikely. Most car loans these days have no prepayment penalty, and the interest is only calculated on the outstanding principal balance. Read the loan terms carefully to confirm that is the case, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that's the case.

So if you get the best price on the car you want with that loan, do it. Then you have options; 1) put the extra down payment into the first payment, reducing the outstanding balance and the interest, 2) make larger monthly payments, 3) immediately refinance on better terms.

Originally Posted by Flatballer View Post
Yikes. Yeah, definitely find a new dealership. That's really not how it's supposed to work, at all.

They should give you their best out the door number and you can pay for it however you want.
There's nothing unreasonable about what the dealer's doing here. They have to make money selling cars to stay in business. One way they make money is on the financing. Thus they can sell you the car at a lower price, knowing that for most customers they'll make the money on the financing.



If you have good credit (and can refi at a lower rate), or cash to pay off early, you get the benefit of a lower price, and are in effect subsidized by other customers who can't or won't refi or pay off early.

I've financed cars before to get a more favorable price, and then immediately paid them off. Recently did it on a Macan Turbo.
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Old 03-22-17, 08:10 AM
  #17786  
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Came really close to pulling the trigger on a good deal on the (white) Golf, but at the last second the dealer said I couldn't put more than $1k down on their 4.99% APR 60-month loan so I walked.

The way they are structuring this deal I can't even finance it through my bank or they'll redo the whole offer (for a worse price). The good price on the car is linked to their ****ty loan, it seems.

They kept saying I could pay it off early anyway, so it shouldn't matter to me - but it looks like I would have to pay the full interest on the total no matter when I paid it off, which is not what I'm looking for.. **** is complicated.

Lucky for me they aren't the only game in town, I'm not in a rush, and so far the VW dealerships are willing to match each other's deals.

Must be tough for dealers these days, what with TrueCar and all - people come in with crazy good deals, then want to negotiate for more off, etc. But they've created this monster of negotiating everything and keeping customers blind, so I don't feel too bad.

yeah, when we bought the Mazda we took the loan over to the credit union a day or two later and sold it to them. Interest rate is so low it doesn't even make sense to pay it down early.

Can you go to your bank and get a loan check at a low rate and just pay cash (check) at the dealer for a good price?
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Old 03-22-17, 08:21 AM
  #17787  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
Can you go to your bank and get a loan check at a low rate and just pay cash (check) at the dealer for a good price?
What I get from Matt's post is the dealer won't give him as good of price for cash. The financial arm of VW (or whoever is doing the financing) is likely giving the Dealer an incentive to package the deal with the loan, that allows the dealer to sell at a lower price for credit than cash.

But nothing stops him from taking that deal and immediately refinancing, like you did with your credit union.
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Old 03-22-17, 08:23 AM
  #17788  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
I've financed cars before to get a more favorable price, and then immediately paid them off. Recently did it on a Macan Turbo.


This actually hurts the dealer. If possible, make 3 payments and then pay it off. We get charged back on some things by the bank when customers do this. A lot of the banks we work with have a 90 day chargeback period
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Old 03-22-17, 08:30 AM
  #17789  
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My interest rate is crazy low, but I still have this desire to pay it off early to get one less payment out of my monthly budget (I know I'd do better by keeping paying the interest and putting more into a Roth IRA but clearing the car note means I could put more into my mortgage and get out of the pmi zone sooner - that's money just going to nothing). Given my rate was ~2% I never refinanced. I think we have a $250 fee for early repayment, which is more than I'd save on interest at this point, but I really would like one less bill just to be done with it.
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Old 03-22-17, 08:31 AM
  #17790  
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Originally Posted by Wylde06 View Post
This actually hurts the dealer. If possible, make 3 payments and then pay it off. We get charged back on some things by the bank when customers do this. A lot of the banks we work with have a 90 day chargeback period
Ok, If you want to be nice, make 3 payments before you refinance it. With today's interest rates, the extra interest for 3 months would only be a few dollars.
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Old 03-22-17, 08:32 AM
  #17791  
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Originally Posted by Wylde06 View Post
This actually hurts the dealer. If possible, make 3 payments and then pay it off. We get charged back on some things by the bank when customers do this. A lot of the banks we work with have a 90 day chargeback period
What's his incentive not to hurt the dealer exactly? Not really his fault that the dealer's incentives are set up in a way that encourages people to refinance, thus making money for the automaker while hurting the dealer. Maybe dealers should talk to the automaker about this?
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Old 03-22-17, 08:34 AM
  #17792  
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Why we gotta negotiate for cars anyway? I'd be so angry if I had to negotiate grocery prices, bike prices, etc.
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Old 03-22-17, 09:03 AM
  #17793  
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Originally Posted by Flatballer View Post
What's his incentive not to hurt the dealer exactly? Not really his fault that the dealer's incentives are set up in a way that encourages people to refinance, thus making money for the automaker while hurting the dealer. Maybe dealers should talk to the automaker about this?


As far as I know refinancing isn't an issue, its when you pay it off right away. Ive only ever seen chargeback letters when someone has paid their car off immediately after buying it
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Old 03-22-17, 09:09 AM
  #17794  
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Originally Posted by Wylde06 View Post
As far as I know refinancing isn't an issue, its when you pay it off right away
From the original lender's point of view, re financing, with a different lender is paying off the original loan.

The new lender cuts a check to the first lender for the payoff balance, and the new lender gives you a loan for the amount they paid the first lender.

Either way, the Original lender is getting paid in full, either by the new lender, or by you. I doubt it makes a difference to them where the payoff check comes from, as long as it clears.
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Old 03-22-17, 09:32 AM
  #17795  
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Like I said, the only time ive seen chargebacks is from when the customer pays it off.
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Old 03-22-17, 09:56 AM
  #17796  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
I think that's unlikely. Most car loans these days have no prepayment penalty, and the interest is only calculated on the outstanding principal balance. Read the loan terms carefully to confirm that is the case, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that's the case.
This is the real sticking point.. and the cause of some household debate as well.

There is no penalty to pay it off, but the finance fine print says if you pay early you pay the full Amount Financed (price of the car), plus "the earned and unpaid part of the Finance Charge and all other amounts due up to the date of your payment"

So the question I have is what is the Finance Charge? I will ask them, but I'm going to another dealer today to see if it all ends up the same.
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Old 03-22-17, 10:09 AM
  #17797  
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
This is the real sticking point.. and the cause of some household debate as well.

There is no penalty to pay it off, but the finance fine print says if you pay early you pay the full Amount Financed (price of the car), plus "the earned and unpaid part of the Finance Charge and all other amounts due up to the date of your payment"

So the question I have is what is the Finance Charge? I will ask them, but I'm going to another dealer today to see if it all ends up the same.
The finance charges accrue over time. So, while you may end up paying $1000 in total financing over the course of the loan, you are only liable for the financing accrued at that point.

So, if your loan is $20k and the finance rate is 5%, in the first month, your interest charge would be $83.33. (These numbers assume I am remembering how to do the interest accrual calculations correctly. It's been a long time since I took finance in college. But if I remember correctly, in this example, your interest rate is 0.41677% (5%/12) of your monthly principle balance.)

Let's assume your monthly payment is $400, $83.33 of that goes to the interest and $316.67 goes to principal. So, for month No. 2, you're interest would be $82.01. (We subtract the $316.67 from the $20k, then apply the interest.)

The faster you pay off the principle, the more your interest charges drop. But all lenders make sure they get their interest first. So, the first $83.33 you pay goes to interest, then the rest goes to principle.

Here is why that matters. Let's say you want to pay extra to reduce the principle. Your monthly payment is $400, and you are going to pay $500. If you pay on the day the billing period ends, all $100 goes to principle. But, if you wait, say 5 days, then the bank will take 5 days worth of interest out of that $100 and apply the rest to principle. Continuing our example, in month three, your principle would be $19,365.34 (two $400 payments minus interest of $83.33 and $82.01). For each day outstanding, you accrue $2.65 in interest. So, if you waited 5 days, the bank would take $13.26 for interest accrued and apply the remaining $86.74 to outstanding principle.

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Old 03-22-17, 10:14 AM
  #17798  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
The finance charges accrue over time. So, while you may end up paying $1000 in total financing over the course of the loan, you are only liable for the financing accrued at that point.

So, if your loan is $20k and the finance rate is 5%, in the first month, your interest charge would be $83.33. (These numbers assume I am remembering how to do the interest accrual calculations correctly. It's been a long time since I took finance in college. But if I remember correctly, in this example, your interest rate is 0.41677% (5%/12) of your monthly principle balance.)

Let's assume your monthly payment is $400, $83.33 of that goes to the interest and $316.67 goes to principal. So, for month No. 2, you're interest would be $82.01. (We subtract the $316.67 from the $20k, then apply the interest.)
Yeah, I think that's right.

It's basically saying you owe all the principal (duh) plus any "earned and unpaid" finance charges, which means any interest that THEY have earned from you but you haven't paid yet. So interest through the day you pay it off, just like you'd expect.
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Old 03-22-17, 05:03 PM
  #17799  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
The finance charges accrue over time. So, while you may end up paying $1000 in total financing over the course of the loan
I wish they made this more clear, and that car dealers were more trustworthy!

I freaked out over this because there appear to be some loans in which you do pay the full interest over 60 months even if you paid it all off on day 1.

I ended up going to another dealer who is way nicer, seems more open, and is giving me a better deal, so all is well. Picked navy blue car after all. It'll be hot, but cool at the same time.
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Old 03-22-17, 05:15 PM
  #17800  
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Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Picked navy blue car after all. It'll be hot, but cool at the same time.
glad to see you following your coach's advice for once.
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