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Racing too much!?

Old 04-03-05, 07:15 PM
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my58vw
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I just finished my 5th race in 5 weeks and it has been a little taxing mentally. We all know my situation, out there to do my best, getting dropped all the time right now but getting faster all the time. I know that I am not in "race" shape right now, which is fine, I am getting there. Racing is a whole other calabur of cycling that has made me a much stronger rider than I could ever have had been before.

1. I have increased my average speed by 2 - 3 MPH in 2 months
2. I have increased my confidence in bike handling greatly in the last 6 weeks
3. I have increased my overall confidence in riding greatly in the last 6 weeks
4. I have learned to suffer and that I will survive.

Mentally it is a little different story. I have been dropped every race (although I may have been able to stay closer than I ever have today). Being my first season I am a little taxed from racing. Today after seeing my team member quit it made me wonder for a second why am I suffering to no result after I was dropped.

I have 5 weeks until the next big race (Ontario #3). There is 2 races inbetween now and Ontario, one is on the 24 and one the week before. I am thinking that what I need right now is to take the 5 weeks off and train hard without the thoughts of racing looming every week and the disapointment that comes with getting dropped in a race. I think in 5 weeks of good solid training that I will be in the posistion to possibly do significantly better than I have been.

Anyone have any ideas? After 5 weeks straight I am ready for a small break, not burnout physically but mentally. We do have practice crits on Thursday nights that I am going to start going to. Thanks as always
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Old 04-03-05, 07:19 PM
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do you have a coach? I thought you were getting one, they can help you plan an effective program. Racing a lot is not bad in itself as long as you put it in the contect of how much you are training and when.

I would say, if you need a break mentally take it, train instead or race for a few weeks.
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Old 04-03-05, 07:25 PM
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Yes, but he is on vacation this week and I have an appointment ot start as soon as he comes back (and I finish recieving the start up fee $$$, darn government taking their sweat time with my tax return $$$ )

I agree that racing can be a good tool and it is something that we will be discussing when I go to my first appointment. We will see after that, I just want to plan whether I am going to think about the race on the 24th or not before that point.
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Old 04-03-05, 07:30 PM
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In a word you're overtrained. You're trying to accomplish too much, too soon. You have made great strides in your riding capabilities in a few short months. You're probably frustrated because you're not seeing those same results now that you're racing. Racing is hard, no question about it. Hang in there, keep racing and most importanly keep learning. Use this year as your year of learning. You're making mistakes (overtraining, arriving at the start line late, etc). Learn from these and go from there.

Years ago when I called a baseball coach to tell him I was quitting the team because it was too hot he replied with "Fine, quitters never win and winners never quit." Sounds kind of hokey but I never missed a practice after that .
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Old 04-03-05, 10:13 PM
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Take a rest week this week. Only ride for fun. Then train hard the next 4 weeks (including training crits). Then go out an do well at Ontario. Don't race every weekend and get burnout. Burnout is really a mental thing, I would say. You can be physically overtrained and stressed, but if you mind is in it the only thing that will come from that is illness, injury, poor recovery, etc....

I'm actually taking a few weeks off right now. I feel a bit of burn-out coming on, but I'm still excited to race. The burnout is primarily due to stuff besides racing. Primarily school, the next 3 collegiate races are FAR away and will require me to be gone from friday afternoon until sunday night. I have big tests the next 3 weeks, so I really need that time to study. At the beginning of the season I chose the Wyoming race as my "A" race for the collegiate season. It will be my last collegiate race. (The only on after that is regionals, which I would like to go to but its the weekend before finals... and I'll be moving into my apartment that weekend as well). So I plan on training pretty hard and also doing a lot of school crap in the weeks leading up to Wyoming.
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Old 04-03-05, 10:43 PM
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I was trying to peak for Redlands because it is the hometown race and has some really big primes... which our team won (150 dollars + a few prizes). I think I pushed a little hard for Ontario and needed to take that week off. I did not and I paid the price in relands. Zack was right, I pushed myself too hard too soon trying to keep the pace and while I improved it was not quick enough.

I am planning a nice long ride Wednesday after a nice SLOW group ride on Tuesday. Actually on Tuesday I am going to lead a middle paced ride for a few of the riders who want to jump up to the middle speed group, about 16 MPH avg for 25 miles. I would like to go out to the beach this week (about 35 miles each way) but maybe take the train back... should be absolutly beautiful down there. I really miss the Sunday group rides also. Should be a nice week!
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Old 04-03-05, 11:22 PM
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Sounds like you just need a break, from racing.
My last race, that I was planning on attending, was last weekend. With workload increasing exponentially I'm glad that the race was last week.
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Old 04-04-05, 12:37 AM
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How much sleep are you getting? When I start to see my performance drop, I take three days off, and sleep like 11 hours a night for those 3 nights, then when I get back on the bike, I'm flying...
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Old 04-04-05, 01:08 AM
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About 6 - 8 hours depending on the day and work.

Basically as much as I can get... 6 weeks with no recovery week are just too much, even with the amount of sleep...
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Old 04-04-05, 01:29 AM
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You really don't want to hear/read what I have to say so I shall stay out of it.

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Old 04-04-05, 01:54 AM
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6 to 8 means 7... With all the riding you are doing, I don't think thats enough. But everyone is different.

I was reading your blog a bit too, just an FYI, you may want to shorten the rest time between your sprint intervals as you keep doing them. 5 min is a long time to rest. But Keep it up, the harder you train, the more fun the races become.

If you are doing 25 second sprints at 30mph, your covering about 350 meters. Thats a fairly long sprint, hell its almost half a km.

If your shorten them up a bit, you may find your leg speed, and ultimatley your peak speed going up. Practicing long sprints is good, as it will help build sustainable power, but don't over look the short really "all out" efforts that you need to come around a guy or two in the last 100 meters. These should started at race or near race speeds, as winding up from 19mph will take up all the time.

If you have a frined with a motorbike or scooter there are some drills you can do that will help simulate race intervals better than just you and a stopwatch can.

Get him rolling along at 27-28, with you in the draft, swing out and pass the bike. Hold it as long as you can, but make sure you have enough left to stay in the draft as you fade. Rinse and repeat.

You can also start jamming up any and all short power hills on your ride routes. Do it in the drops, and use your whole body like you do in your sprints. If its not the protocol for the group, just tell them youll be doing it and wait for them over the top.

I think I read in another post that youre a faily large guy, as you lose excess weight, you will get faster.

But get some rest first, lol
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Old 04-04-05, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by berny
You really don't want to hear/read what I have to say so I shall stay out of it.
Oh, come on, if you have something to say to the young man say it.
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Old 04-04-05, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ZackJones
Oh, come on, if you have something to say to the young man say it.
I thought I just did?
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Old 04-04-05, 08:59 AM
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I understand where you are coming from on the sprints. I have not updated the blog in a few weeks (will soon, just busy) and I have done that with the sprints, shortened the rest time a little, but I need to shorten them more. I think you are right about the speed... I will work on that in the coming weeks to try and increase top speed by going at 22 - 24 MPH then sprinting out of that instead of 19 MPH or so. I was thinking about hill work yesterday and that exact thing came up, sprints up the hill. My limiter seems like it is power in both sprints and on hills (thus showing a lower than acceptable top speed in sprints). That is something I need to incorperate into my intervals. I believe that is limiting my abilities to stay with the pack on the climbs... also including muscular endurance. All these ahve gotten significantly better in the past few weeks.

I know I need more sleep and I try to get it, with work until late in the night and early school it can be hard to get more. I know I need at least 8 hours per night and I do try and get that.

Thanks for the advice...
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Old 04-04-05, 12:13 PM
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I would agree with the common sentiment here that you are throwing too much at yourself physically and mentally.

You need to cycle your training. Just like you would not train the same every day, do not train the same every week. For starters try cutting your Volume (hrs on bike) back by 30% to 50% every 4th week. It can be hard to disipline yourself to do this, especially if you are feeling good, but it will pay off over the course of a season.
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Old 04-04-05, 01:37 PM
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If you're asking, it probably means you are.

You're probably overtrained too. Your coach should know better and be able to schedule your recovery better. It would probably be wise to sit down with him and ask him to adjust your training schedule so you can get more recovery time.

If you think you can get by on 6- 8 hours of sleep and keep up that kind of schedule and still work (I don't know if you have a family, but if so, then that's even more time and stress on you), then you're sadly mistaken if you think that is adequate. You should be aiming for 8- 10 hours to be optimal. 7 hours is barely adequate. If you can't get the quality sleep in, you might as well just cut back to about half of what you're doing. Sleep helps greatly in the recovery process, and if you're missing out on it, then when is your body recovering?

If your coach is off for a week, maybe it's a good time for you to take off a week too. That may help. Catch up on your sleep and see your coach when they get back into town.

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Old 04-04-05, 01:47 PM
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sounds to me like you need to ditch everything else and concentrate on bike riding. work? school? obligations? who need 'em.
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Old 04-04-05, 03:31 PM
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sounds to me like you need to ditch everything else and concentrate on bike riding. work? school? obligations? who need 'em.
One more quarter and maybe... well no more school at least

I am trying to find more time to sleep, I now try and not get up until after 9 am (go to bed at 12:30, sometimes it works sometimes it does not. I do not have a family right now. I am overtrained as I am relized, that is why I am taking this week easy on the bike. I am also taking a few Sundays off from racing to get back. I should have scheduled a recovery week about 2 weeks ago and I think I would be fine, but I did not and now I am paying for it. Sunday's group ride will be a good indicator on how I am doing.

I have a full schedule of racing still this year but I may cut out a few races here and there to recover more. Here in SoCal there is something like 30 races through out the year (until August) adn I am planning 12 - 14 more before the end of the season.

The lesson I learned here is that I need to take more time off and to moderate my schedule more. For a while I was doing, Rest Monday, Hard group ride Tuesday and Thursday and intervals on Wed and Fri, easy day Saturday. That was way too much and probably the reason I went too far. I am having the schedule adjusted so I do my group ride and intervals on the same day and use Wednesday and Friday as slower recovery days.

In 10 weeks I have no more school... Graduating and I should be able to get much more sleep!
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Old 04-04-05, 06:50 PM
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Take a nap. Even if it's only 15 minutes or so it helps. Also, I wouldn't cut out any races, instead use them a super hard training days. There is no substitute for racing, not matter how hard you train.
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Old 04-04-05, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by my58vw
One more quarter and maybe... well no more school at least

I am trying to find more time to sleep, I now try and not get up until after 9 am (go to bed at 12:30, sometimes it works sometimes it does not. I do not have a family right now. I am overtrained as I am relized, that is why I am taking this week easy on the bike. I am also taking a few Sundays off from racing to get back. I should have scheduled a recovery week about 2 weeks ago and I think I would be fine, but I did not and now I am paying for it. Sunday's group ride will be a good indicator on how I am doing.

I have a full schedule of racing still this year but I may cut out a few races here and there to recover more. Here in SoCal there is something like 30 races through out the year (until August) adn I am planning 12 - 14 more before the end of the season.

The lesson I learned here is that I need to take more time off and to moderate my schedule more. For a while I was doing, Rest Monday, Hard group ride Tuesday and Thursday and intervals on Wed and Fri, easy day Saturday. That was way too much and probably the reason I went too far. I am having the schedule adjusted so I do my group ride and intervals on the same day and use Wednesday and Friday as slower recovery days.

In 10 weeks I have no more school... Graduating and I should be able to get much more sleep!
YES !! That's way too much effort day after day, you NEED recovery days after hard effort days. Your coach should enforce this when he gets back from holiday.
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Old 04-04-05, 08:55 PM
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Thanks, I am feeling almost back to normal today, the big ring is starting to feel like it did before. I agree with the small race thing, I have a few like that in the coming weeks so we will see how it goes.

Itr is hard if you mentally think you are going to get dropped. I try to go into every race saying to myself that I will go all out and give it my best effort no matter what happens... that was Ontario. I was able to double the amount of time I was with the pack. A race like Redlands was daunting because it was just so hard in comparison to all the other races I had done... plus I felt real crappy for the race.

I knwo taht I will get stronger, while I understand that getting dropped is a reality right now I go to every race and say no matter what happens I will give 100% for the race and see how it falls. I predict in a few months I will be right there and soon after placing in the races... it will come with time.

And yes I was physically tired... but it is coming back fast and soon I will be back stronger than before...
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Old 04-04-05, 09:41 PM
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Getting dropped happens. I stay with the pack consistently now, most of the time the lead group. I still sometimes worry during parts of the race that I'm going to get dropped. I know I would be pissed if I did get dropped off of the back, but thats one reason why staying near the front is key - if you get tired and people start passing you have more time to recover and still stay in the shadow.... I have seen riders that I know can do well in a catagory higher than me get dropped like they were hot. Sometimes its just a combination of a bad day, not feeling well, hard course, poor strategy, or some other factor.

I know this isn't the issue with you, just know that because you stay with the pack once you won't be golden. Even after you win, you could still get dropped.
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Old 04-04-05, 09:45 PM
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If you are absolutely smoked then take a break.
but remember racing can be good training. this weekend I got into a break 1/3 into the race and for the rest of the race my HR was pegged at like 170-175, we stayed away and i ended up with third. it was probably my best workout in months.
you will alwayes go harder in a race than on your own, use this to your advantage in training.

do you do any road races? you only seem to talk about crits which are way more harsh than roadraces. i understand getting dropped in crits right off the bat, but RR's should be a little bit more humane for the first bit

you should also be ridding way more than just like 25 miles a ride. 35 miles out to the beach? dont take the train back, whats up with that? you want to hang in the races then ride back, you dont get stronger from only doing 35mile rides every day.
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Old 04-04-05, 10:39 PM
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I do not have 3 - 4 hours per day to dedicate to riding these distances, I wish I did. I am a student and working full time. Base miles are not for building the kind of strength that you are talking about, it is for building areobic base. Intervals for my understanding for building core strength. I do not do too many road races because 90 percent of the races here are crits.

The 35 miles to take the train back is because this is a RECOVERY week and I do not want to push myself into a 70 mile ride on a recovery week. The 70 - 100 mile rides are for days when I can do that kind of riding. Personally I do not need the superlong base miles for the 30 - 45 minute crits that I am doing. It is not areobic work that is killing me in crits.

Many of our 25 mile rides are extremly intense, HRs well into the aneorobic range for quite some time. I can pull off a 60 mile ride when I have the time. Sometimes quanity does not equal quality. I only have 2 - 3 hours to ride on Wednesday and the beach ride is not hard but it is time consuming. To ride there and back would take about 4 hours minimum riding the whole time. We have to be realistic. This is not the time of year for base milage anyway, I would be doing 3 60 mile rides per week 4 months ago, not now. Of course many of the major training people say your longest base ride should be equal to the longest race of the season, for cat 5 that would be 42 miles in August... not 70 - 100. I am not daying that that kind of milage does not help but right now my training looks like this.

Off, Intervals, Easy base day, Intervals, Long ride, Easy base day Race. I learned that when I try and cram in a 60 mile ride into the middle of intervals I overtrain, that is what I am going through right now...

And no I have not done any real "road races", there has not been any in our area this year. I have done a circuit race and I faired much better there than in crits but they are far between here.
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Old 04-04-05, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by timmhaan
sounds to me like you need to ditch everything else and concentrate on bike riding. work? school? obligations? who need 'em.
also posting here, blogging, girls....or boys....
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