Doge

I apologize if there is such a thread.
What super secret things can you share that are strategic or tactical?

mattm

timing is everything.

rkwaki

Sprints are won with two things:1. patience
2. power
You need both to win.

Ygduf

ITT: smartass answers

I will contribute this: peak fitness isn't important if you lack the race experience to know how to use it. Race more = get better at it.

mattm

i was being serious dammit!

rk said it better than me tho.

Hermes

Do not race against juniors.

Alaska Mike

Allow the big. strong triathlete to drag you around, then pip them in the sprint.

shovelhd

Why would I share super secret things?

****

wphamilton

Does anyone use a mini-max analysis while racing, yourself vs the collective field?

EventServices

There's a book out there that covers a lot of this.

In the meantime, here's a tip that's pure gold: spend as much (or more) time working on bike handling skills as you do on power training. Power means nothing if you're lying on the ground.

mattm

whats that?

wens

Thanks for validating my partial season of riding the wrong type of bike through silly terrain in a discipline I'm not particularly good at; that requires, of all stupidity, getting off your bike and carrying it.

ESTrainSmart

If you need to thin out the pack, learn how to attack/ counter attack in an aero position seated. It never looks threatening until you've created a nice gap and a lot of panic in the main group. This will also help you manage who the real contenders are for the podium instead of thinking that everyone is a threat.

Doge

Be able to recognize the top 30% before the race.

wphamilton

It's a game-theory way of examining possible moves in a game tree. Given your possible actions, consider each possible response and evaluate them from worst for you to least worst, then all of your possible responses to each of those ranked from best to least best. And so on, as deeply as you can imagine. The end result (best-worst-best ...) is the best you can expect from a particular decision.

I was just wondering how commonly bike racers arrange their tactics in this sort of strategy, or if it's always a 2-ply sort of deal.

Bandera

My coach had raced on the board tracks pre-WWII, his strategy:

"Be there at the end."

-Bandera

Creakyknees

My stock advice to noobs: be with the leaders near the end of the race, and try to get your wheel across the line first.

Some real advice: learn how to draft, anticipate the movement of the pack to save energy and know when an attack is more likely to succeed.

Scotia_Cyclist

this covers a lot Reading the Race

Doge

The break thread reminded me of these - so I put them here.
I've seen these once or twice this year.

1 Send a break off/let it establish with the type of riders you think you can beat at the finish. You have someone to ride with if you choose to break away. This is typically done if you are a marked rider. Send the others away, then bridge. Typical to have the bigger stronger rider go first, then bet you have a sprint they don't after you've ridden with them.

2 Establish a mini break with a rival that have different riding style than you (say you are a hill climber, they are a sprinter). Break just before a hill and take rider with you/give a free ride. Then drop them on the hill leaving them solo. They may end up a bit softer than had you all stayed in the pack or you had gone off alone and left them in the pack.

3 Common Stage race technique - used VOS. Act like a sheep dog and get the strong riders to the front and let them get away/don't chase (I didn't say block) so they take points away from the sprinter in your group.

Doge

Have you guys seen this one often? Have you seen it useful?

A real hard (real hard) attack from the front that projects the cyclist some 10m in front and rarely sticks as a break away - unless someone else bites and goes. This also involves moving side to side a bunch, so from some aerial view you would see a zig-zag. It looks like the intent is to get others to do something and there is no intent of making it stick. It was happening almost every lap at the Sea Otter CR yesterday.

I also saw this at VOS but didn't put it together until yesterday. I asked my son about it and he said "Oh yea, that's some Belgium racing thing". There is one USA that does this more often. It appears to correlate a bit to those that have raced in Europe. I can't tell if the correlation is because its advanced and those type of riders go to Europe, or if those riders learned it there.

Anyway it seems very useful to find out who's marking you, who's nervous etc., while its also a way to find when you are being ignored and can use a bit of extra energy.

I'll do some video edits in a few days to highlight it, but curious on other thoughts/experience.

shovelhd

I'll wait for the video, but I have attacked like that, using the whole road, when I am marked heavily and I'm one of the strongest in the field. I'll attack every lap or so at about 80% and see what happens. Then I'll save enough for one good 100% attack with less than 10 minutes to go and try and stick it.

Doge

You can see from the videos I posted. They are longish. Since my post #20 the RR happened. As the break group was small, there was only one such attack after my son was caught.

Enthalpic

I've seen it tried a bunch but have never seen it work. It may help if you are way stronger but most times I think they are wasting the extra power by traveling useless distance. If you zig-zag across a lane you have to travel an extra ~7.4m/zig-zag as compared to going straight.

Doge

The team that does this is very successful - esp. in Europe. This weekend the Junior National Director was their race director. It looks like it is being taught. Maybe it works better when you are being marked and people jump/counter at that. I thought it contributed to their fatigue. Still - I wonder, which is why I brought it up.

misterwaterfall

Oddly I have seen that, but only really from juniors. Usually when I see attacks they just go, and don't mess around with fanfare or making it look like they are attacking.