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2015 Race Results

Old 12-17-15, 02:27 PM
  #2676  
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Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
I have one teammate who is a former US national team rower. He kicks butt. Another teammate is a former pro distance runner. He also kicks butt. I am comfortable saying that both rowing and distance running would be time wasted if you are training for a bicycle race.
Not all running is distance running. Here they replaced cycling with high intensity running and got great results.

Improved VO2max and time trial performance with more high aerobic intensity interval training and reduced training volume: a case study on an elite... - PubMed - NCBI

From November 2010 to February 2011, the cyclist reduced total average monthly training volume by 18% and cycling training volume by 60%. The amount of training at 90-95% HRpeak increased by 41%. VO2max increased by 10.3% on ergometer cycle. TT performance improved by 14.9%. C(c) did not change. In conclusion, preseason reduced total training volume but increased amount of HAIT improved VO2max and TT performance without any changes in C(c). These improvements on cycling appeared despite that the HAIT blocks were performed as running. Reduced training time, and training transfer from running into improved cycling form, may be beneficial for cyclists living in cold climate areas.
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Old 12-17-15, 04:40 PM
  #2677  
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That "elite national cyclist" must have really sucked before their 41% HRpeak, VO2max increase of 10% and TT performance by 15% (I assume 15% lower time). That would have been the difference between 1st and about 60th place at the National TT.
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Old 12-17-15, 04:50 PM
  #2678  
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Originally Posted by Enthalpic View Post
Not all running is distance running. Here they replaced cycling with high intensity running and got great results.

Improved VO2max and time trial performance with more high aerobic intensity interval training and reduced training volume: a case study on an elite... - PubMed - NCBI

From November 2010 to February 2011, the cyclist reduced total average monthly training volume by 18% and cycling training volume by 60%. The amount of training at 90-95% HRpeak increased by 41%. VO2max increased by 10.3% on ergometer cycle. TT performance improved by 14.9%. C(c) did not change. In conclusion, preseason reduced total training volume but increased amount of HAIT improved VO2max and TT performance without any changes in C(c). These improvements on cycling appeared despite that the HAIT blocks were performed as running. Reduced training time, and training transfer from running into improved cycling form, may be beneficial for cyclists living in cold climate areas.

That's interesting, and not something I've read before. I wonder whether the change in training mix (more intensity, less volume) is as/more significant than the change in training type (less cycling, more running).
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Old 12-17-15, 04:51 PM
  #2679  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
That "elite national cyclist" must have really sucked before their 41% HRpeak, VO2max increase of 10% and TT performance by 15% (I assume 15% lower time). That would have been the difference between 1st and about 60th place at the National TT.
The amount of training at 90 - 95% of Max HR increased by 41%... the peak HR did not increase by 41%.

I agree that the magnitude of improvement is questionable.
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Old 12-17-15, 05:01 PM
  #2680  
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Originally Posted by Enthalpic View Post
The amount of training at 90 - 95% of Max HR increased by 41%... the peak HR did not increase by 41%.

I agree that the magnitude of improvement is questionable.
I do not know how my son's off season rowing will translate to cycling this year. But the time he is spending at 95% his HR is likely up 500% over cycling, if not way more. Actually much more. He spends minutes weekly above 200BPM (max is 206) where at the end of some very hard TTs or crit sprints he'd get there for 15 seconds.

We were discussing this and he says it's his legs that are the limiting factor. I expect that is just development. My legs rarely a factor. My cardio was.
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Old 12-17-15, 08:36 PM
  #2681  
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Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
I wonder whether the change in training mix (more intensity, less volume) is as/more significant than the change in training type (less cycling, more running).
I wonder this as well - we need more information. What we can't do is blindly reject evidence just because it is counter-intuitive or conflicting with our current behaviors / beliefs.

Here is one where untrained women improved equally at both cycling and running even though they were assigned to run-only, bike-only, or mixed.
Cross-training between cycling and running in untrained females. - PubMed - NCBI

This one says specificity rules but recognizes running as excellent cross training.
Effects of cross-training. Transfer of training effects on VO2max between cycling, running and swimming. - PubMed - NCBI
The nonspecific training effects seem to be more noticeable when running is performed as a cross-training mode.

Anyone else remember pizzaman?
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Old 12-17-15, 09:29 PM
  #2682  
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I read in all these examples the athletes were not so close to the top to start with. And...VO2 max is no big deal over a certain level. Most these top riders I see results for are within 1% of each other for a given sport. Basically, I don't believe it. Find a real top 10 male athlete in open class and see what you do with them.
If you can get a .5% improvement there will be a line with folks cash in hand.
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Old 12-18-15, 07:52 AM
  #2683  
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Originally Posted by Enthalpic View Post
So the runner who is new to cross kicks your ass and you conclude that running is a waste of time?

#EvidenceBased
#LearningFromChampions
Perhaps if you read more carefully, you will find that is not what I said, but ok.

Edit: There's a bigger picture here that you don't have. I raced against the same guy again a few days later and he wasn't anywhere near me - and I didn't have a particularly good race that day, either. Overall, his results are decent but not as good as mine in similar races. He also had done two races a week and a half prior, whereas I had just raced two days at Northampton three days earlier. This isn't excuse making, only to point out that there are many factors that go into cyclocross results, courses do vary quite a bit, and the conditions that prevailed at this race weren't the usual for this season. I got beaten by someone who frankly wasn't normally on my level this year. That's fine, that happens. I feel pretty satisfied with how I approached my cross season training, I feel especially certain that I have a more complete understanding of my weaknesses than a a guy on the Internet. I don't doubt that a bit more high-intensity running could yield benefits. My point was that running is usually not decisive in cyclocross races in New England and that this one guy beat me in this one race on this one day is not a reason to question my entire approach to training for cyclocross.

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Old 12-18-15, 01:07 PM
  #2684  
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Holy moly grolby, you couldn't even take that as tongue-in-cheek. Lighten up a bit, and desensitize a bit.
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Old 12-18-15, 01:23 PM
  #2685  
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Originally Posted by dz_nuzz View Post
Holy moly grolby, you couldn't even take that as tongue-in-cheek. Lighten up a bit, and desensitize a bit.
Huh? Where is this coming from? It's not a serious matter but Enthalpic said that I said something I didn't, or didn't intend to say. I was clarifying my thoughts with some context, cause though it's NBD it is kind of irritating to be misconstrued. I don't particularly care for the policing of my attitude. Leaving aside that I'm not that bent out of shape about the running thing, you get annoyed about things that I wouldn't consider a big deal but I'm not going to tell you not to feel feelings, you know? "Lighten up," if someone actually needs to lighten up, is an escalating phrase, not a de-escalating phrase. Telling people their feelings aren't valid doesn't usually make them say "Oh, good point, I'll stop being annoyed now."
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Old 12-18-15, 01:49 PM
  #2686  
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Okay, then why don't you get annoyed? GRRR FEEL THE HATE FLOW THROUGH YOU!

Or just ride your bike, that is what I default to.
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Old 12-18-15, 02:11 PM
  #2687  
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Old 12-18-15, 02:20 PM
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Mmmm I should re-watch star wars. My quotes are getting rusty.
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Old 12-21-15, 07:45 AM
  #2689  
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Yesterday my 2015 season of officiating ended. My last event as a racer was April 4th. Since then, I worked 19 races, mostly D and E events, with one B event. I had one total disaster out of them all. My favorite assignments were Chief Referee at March Farm, and Assistant Referee in the pits at New Haven. If I get the right assignments I should be able to upgrade to Category B in 2017, which makes me eligible for any USAC or UCI race. I learned a ton, although I had to work very hard (too hard) to gain that knowledge. Officials should not be treated like Cat5 (WCat4) racers, expected to learn on the job with little foundation. Hopefully that will improve over time. I think I'm through the worst of it, and I am looking forward to next season and seeing many of you on the race course. Cheers.
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Old 12-23-15, 12:30 PM
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Masters road nationals suddenly seem unlikely for me. End of my son's senior year; he has his final orchestra and choir performances that week. If the crit is the final day it's possible I may be to drive down and make it, but it'll hardly be the relaxing lead in I would normally plan.
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