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2015 USAC rule changes

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2015 USAC rule changes

Old 02-04-15, 07:25 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by grolby View Post
Not to start this debate, but how so? I had heard that collegiate races were now allowing disc brakes in road races, presumably as a cost-saving measure for student athletes (so they could use a disc cross bike in road racing). It doesn't worry me much, but I don't think there's going to be an explosion of disc brakes in road events anymore than there were tons of disc brakes at USAC cross races before the UCI allowed them. The Cat 5 stuff could be more significant. I'm going to go check out the rulebook.
I could see it being an issue in the rain when 80% of the dudes can't stop as quickly due to rim brakes and the ones with disc brakes are able to stop just fine and get slammed into from behind. That said I've never ridden with disc brakes before so I have noooo idea how different they are performance wise from rim brakes.
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Old 02-04-15, 07:42 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
I fully agree on working from within. I'm president of the local USAC club and one of our members (past president) is also president of NYSBRA, level A official, and he attends the USAC summits each year. We try to put together as many local opinions for him to carry to Colorado Springs each year. He feels very frustrated with the direction the USAC has gone recently and he's not alone.

When it came time for me to renew the club insurance in December, I found there was no updated application form for 2015. This was not unusual, since in prior years we've just re-used the previous year and all went fine. Not this time. Our check was returned by mail along with a request that we use the "current" application.

An application which wasn't posted until nearly the end of the year. And oh gee, look at that! a rate increase!

So while USAC were all out enjoying their Christmas junkets and abandoning their post in Colorado, our club was uninsured during the time it took for things to get snailmailed back and forth. Needless to say, it left a bad taste in my mouth. I called up my buddy and related the story to him, suggesting that he ask the USAC (next time he meets with them) to please post the new forms before the end of the year!

And, maybe not surprisingly, he told me the same thing happened to him when he sent in his event forms for the races in 2015. A check mailed back with a request for the new form (which didn't exist yet, yada yada).

Then he gave me a run-down of all the increases that got ramrodded to the promoters for 2015. I should have taken notes.

So, reg. fees will go up (see Bkill) and some races will disappear. Hornby is gone. Bennington is gone. Binghamton Circuit Race may be gone (we are still working on that one)

Do I blame USAC? I'm trying to be understanding. I guess they are doing what they feel is best from their perspective. Maybe they have to deal with strongarming by the insurance companies. I don't know. What I do know is they seem out of touch with the core of amateur racers in this particular area.
Good points all. I think he laid out some of the things in the NYSBRA email (which I'm on so I saw/read). The part that surprised me was the feeling that the LA folks go out there and get told what's happening. I thought there was a touch of "give" to go with the "take" but apparently not so much.
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Old 02-04-15, 08:42 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
thanks!

is that pro and 1 or p/1? (i assume the latter.) are they doing this at elite nationals (tahoe) and masters nationals (ogden)?
My understanding is that it is in Greenville, SC: https://www.usacycling.org/2015/pro-c...-ttt-nationals.

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Old 02-04-15, 10:22 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
I could see it being an issue in the rain when 80% of the dudes can't stop as quickly due to rim brakes and the ones with disc brakes are able to stop just fine and get slammed into from behind. That said I've never ridden with disc brakes before so I have noooo idea how different they are performance wise from rim brakes.
Yeah, but that's already a problem with aluminum vs carbon rims, and it's not THAT much of a problem even then. And if it is a problem, I don't think road disc brakes are blowing up on race bikes this year. I'm actually surprised to hear that they are legal in USAC events. I'll keep an eye out at my races this year, it'll be interesting to see if I start spotting disc brakes.
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Old 02-04-15, 10:26 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Creatre View Post
Any idea what that means? Are these like unofficial non sanctioned practice races? Or like a coach takes a rider out to a industrial warehouse and does some intervals?

Seems vague like you said.
like the NorCal Early Bird series......
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Old 02-04-15, 10:42 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Creatre View Post
Any idea what that means? Are these like unofficial non sanctioned practice races? Or like a coach takes a rider out to a industrial warehouse and does some intervals?

Seems vague like you said.
i don't know. I will be taking the webinar tonight so if there is any insight I will pass it along.

The more significant development is the emergence of the BRP, a USAC approved clinic format that rewards participants with the highest race credit. It's the first formalized, standardized replacement for the kiddie pool. How does this get instituted in all regions? Does an instructor have to hold a USAC coaching license? How will they be permitted? Will each clinic have to be approved by the LA?
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Old 02-04-15, 10:55 AM
  #32  
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Fee increases: We don't know what is driving them. All I know is that USAC in recent years has been focused on rider development at the Elite level. That is surely driven by the UCI. While there is merit in this effort, and it should always be something to focus on, they have done so at the expense of grassroots racing,who is paying the bills. The BRP is the first move that I have seen since returning to racing that is focused on growing the grassroots amateur end of the sport. Let's see how this plays out.

Races: Races have come and gone since the beginning of time. Nothing will change that. The pressures are more than financial. When business is disrupted and residents are inconvenienced with little payback that's a problem that is hard to solve. It's hard to hold a race these days. However the kinds of cost increases that we are talking about here are easily passed on to riders via entry fees. It's a small increment. The more interesting trend is reducing payouts from cash to medals only. We're talking thousands of dollars per race here. I see that trend continuing.
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Old 02-04-15, 11:01 AM
  #33  
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Equal payout for men and women pro and elite NCC/NRC is a very significant development. It's great for the women and should help grow the sport for them, but where are the pro tour race series for them to graduate to? TLF is great but what about the dozens of pro tour events at all levels? For the promoter it is a huge hit. Since the 2015 schedule was set before this, what happens this year? Were promoters aware of this before they submitted their NCC/NRC application?
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Old 02-04-15, 12:08 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Creatre View Post
Any idea what that means? Are these like unofficial non sanctioned practice races? Or like a coach takes a rider out to a industrial warehouse and does some intervals?

Seems vague like you said.
at team camp we participated in a non-sanctioned practice race. basically a pick-up game.

the weekend after, we participated in a sanctioned practice race. all the USAC forms and ****, mentors for the lower-cat races, etc, but no results posted or points awarded.

this seems clear to me.
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Old 02-04-15, 01:19 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
Equal payout for men and women pro and elite NCC/NRC is a very significant development. It's great for the women and should help grow the sport for them, but where are the pro tour race series for them to graduate to? TLF is great but what about the dozens of pro tour events at all levels? For the promoter it is a huge hit. Since the 2015 schedule was set before this, what happens this year? Were promoters aware of this before they submitted their NCC/NRC application?
The promoter for Thater was aware of it. He was swearing about it on the day he found out about it last summer. I guess they found a way to hit up the sponsors for the extra cash.
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Old 02-04-15, 01:30 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
Fee increases: We don't know what is driving them. All I know is that USAC in recent years has been focused on rider development at the Elite level. That is surely driven by the UCI. While there is merit in this effort, and it should always be something to focus on, they have done so at the expense of grassroots racing,who is paying the bills. The BRP is the first move that I have seen since returning to racing that is focused on growing the grassroots amateur end of the sport. Let's see how this plays out.

Races: Races have come and gone since the beginning of time. Nothing will change that. The pressures are more than financial. When business is disrupted and residents are inconvenienced with little payback that's a problem that is hard to solve. It's hard to hold a race these days. However the kinds of cost increases that we are talking about here are easily passed on to riders via entry fees. It's a small increment. The more interesting trend is reducing payouts from cash to medals only. We're talking thousands of dollars per race here. I see that trend continuing.
The biggest increase in costs for a grassroots event is the 4M insurance policy. The costs to the promoter went up by over $500 for this item alone. That will put some races out of business since they were barely breaking even anyway. Let's say we decide to run another State TT. We get 100 people who pay $20 each, and that gets us to breakeven. Should we put on the same event and eat the extra $500 (plus the other increases) or should we increase the reg fee to $25 and hope we still get 100 people? There's no guarantee that anyone will show up, and if people decide not to sign up, we still pay the piper.

BTW I am not quoting the actual reg fees.

Or we could try the Dieter recipe and keep raising the price to make sure we actually make a profit until people (like me) decide to boycott the event, and then let it die. I'd like to see USAC actually come out to some of these grassroots events and see what things are really like at the low-end.
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Old 02-04-15, 03:08 PM
  #37  
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Agreed. I don't think your example is too far off from the real economics.

USAC has some new leadership and the BRP at least looks like positive change in the right direction. I am in wait and see mode.

Thanks for for your insight on Thater, that explains a lot.
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Old 02-04-15, 07:58 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
The biggest increase in costs for a grassroots event is the 4M insurance policy. The costs to the promoter went up by over $500 for this item alone.
The $4 million policy is optional - it may be required as part of a public agency permit or by a landowner. Info on USAC's policies may be found at this link on their website:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/USACWeb/for...tInsurance.pdf

There is also an optional fee to have entities listed as named insured versus additional insured ($75). Aside from the rider surcharge increase the auto insurance went up $5 per vehicle (from my memory) and motors appear to remain the same.

I am a bit split on the insurance. The rates actually look reasonable when compared to the market - and I have had two professional risk managers tell me the same. USAC is just horribly opaque when communicating things to their constituents. Right now their own National Technical Commission is demanding more transparency in regards to coverage for race officials. As they say "Trust but Verify".
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Old 02-04-15, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
Correct.
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Old 02-04-15, 08:02 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
I didn't know disc brakes weren't allowed before. There was at least one guy with disc brakes at Bethel.
Disc brakes have always been allowed (or not prohibited) in events run under domestic rules. They are not (and were not) allowed in the events indicated - basically anything run under UCI rules (UCI events, qualifications events, most nationals).
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Old 02-04-15, 08:17 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
That will put some races out of business since they were barely breaking even anyway.
Bethel cost $44k to hold ($45.6k if I put in claimable mileage but about $0.6k of that isn't actual cash spent - the $44k is actual cash spent without gas and maintenance).

Race took in $38k in entry fees.

For this year entry fees are up. Prize money is sort of stable. I hope to reduce costs for two weeks. The final two weeks the costs are the same as Bethel so no savings there. I want to make it with fewer staff. I will still do W2s, workman's comp, liability, payroll expenses, just not for 10 people.
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Old 02-04-15, 08:39 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
I want to make it with fewer staff.
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Old 02-04-15, 08:45 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Tech Director View Post
The $4 million policy is optional - it may be required as part of a public agency permit or by a landowner. Info on USAC's policies may be found at this link on their website:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/USACWeb/for...tInsurance.pdf

There is also an optional fee to have entities listed as named insured versus additional insured ($75). Aside from the rider surcharge increase the auto insurance went up $5 per vehicle (from my memory) and motors appear to remain the same.

I am a bit split on the insurance. The rates actually look reasonable when compared to the market - and I have had two professional risk managers tell me the same. USAC is just horribly opaque when communicating things to their constituents. Right now their own National Technical Commission is demanding more transparency in regards to coverage for race officials. As they say "Trust but Verify".

It is required on any state road in this state. It may be "optional" in regards to USAC, but how does that explain why the cost went up for the same requirement of additional liability coverage between year 2014 and year 2015? (documented in the above linked NYSBRA minutes)
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Old 02-04-15, 08:48 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
Heh.

4 will legitimately stop (stopped racing, spouse of stopped racing, became an official, not working bike races), 2 aren't in the area. I'm actually short a camera person now.
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Old 02-04-15, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
It is required on any state road in this state. It may be "optional" in regards to USAC, but how does that explain why the cost went up for the same requirement of additional liability coverage between year 2014 and year 2015? (documented in the above linked NYSBRA minutes)
Correct that it is much more expensive this year...just didn't want everyone to think it was mandatory. I work all over the country and a $4mil limit is actually pretty rare - damned Yankees ;-)

I think there are two general questions we should be (and are) asking USAC:

1) How do the insurance costs compare to the general market (eg. can a race procure insurance with the same coverage levels for less).

2) Are they turning insurance charges into a profit center, or do the increases show actual increases in premiums.

As someone who buys coverage outside of USAC for other types of events I actually think the rates are comparable for the coverage level...but will admit my experience is somewhat limited. Remember that many races have the ability to just leave USAC and handle all of those services on their own - at least until they come back on the athletes licenses!

I don't mind paying a few extra dollars to USAC IF they are able to negotiate rates and provide services that benefit me through decreased workload or lower premiums. I have more of a problem if they are reaping profits off the insurance to spend elsewhere. I know for my business there is a steady rate increase each year - we should never expect to pay the same rate year after year. However I agree that the $550 increase is a bit much and would like the story behind it.
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Old 02-04-15, 09:18 PM
  #46  
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I couldn't agree more. When I found out about all of the insurance rate increases this year the first thing I thought was...

"doesn't USAC have a responsibility to its membership to find the most competitive rates for insurance?"

Or are they just sticking with Willis out of loyalty...
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Old 02-04-15, 10:13 PM
  #47  
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The BRP sounds like a positive thing, the clinic I went to did cover much about safety. I still think the problem with Cat 5 is you can do 10 races and still not understand basic safety concepts.

As for the promoters fees, cut the prizes for everyone but the pros. I think most non pro amateurs value a pic on the podium more than $100, and if you need that prize money, you probably shouldn't be racing. I'd rather it either reduce/maintain the fees or get rolled into the p/1/2 prize money, where riders are actually trying to earn a living from racing.
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Old 02-04-15, 10:16 PM
  #48  
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The webinar had a lot of clarification on collegiate and fatbike stuff but little on everything else. The one road thing I took away was that Cat5 points do not stack. In other words if you do a mentored race it counts for one point not two (one for the mentored race and one for finishing). Just one point in that instance. Same goes for any other qualifying event, only the higher point qualifier counts. Five points max from non racing events. The rest must be race finishes. Anyone with questions fire away.
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Old 02-04-15, 10:16 PM
  #49  
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Cycling caps not allowed in Road Races or Crits. Finally.
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Old 02-04-15, 10:53 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
I couldn't agree more. When I found out about all of the insurance rate increases this year the first thing I thought was...

"doesn't USAC have a responsibility to its membership to find the most competitive rates for insurance?"

Or are they just sticking with Willis out of loyalty...

USAC's mission
:
The mission of USA Cycling is to achieve sustained success in international cycling competition and grow competitive cycling in America while delivering an exceptional customer experience.

Of course they're sticking it us...who else pays for achieving "success in international cycling"?
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