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How to entice others to join break

Old 02-16-15, 01:27 PM
  #1  
grwoolf
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How to entice others to join break

Any tips out there on how to get others to join your break? I've gotten alliances in place before races and that's worked best for me, but I struggle with what the best approach is when there is no advanced planning.

If you get away from the pack solo or with one or two others and you know help is required to stay away, is there any specific tactic that increases the chance for others to bridge?

I always struggle with how hard to push in this situation. If you go easy and keep things close, it's easier for someone to bridge, but the break may be perceived as weak and not worth the effort. If you push the break hard and build a decent gap, you discourage others from bridging at some point.

My general rule has been to only push hard when I think the break has a chance and just dangle off the front when there isn't a chance. I've had some luck with both approaches, but have spent a lot of time dangling without anyone wanting to bridge (particularly in road races where people have less familiarity with each other). Any advice?
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Old 02-16-15, 02:25 PM
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Bring donuts to the party.
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Old 02-16-15, 02:38 PM
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I'm no breakaway artist, but I've been in a few breaks.

One thing I can say for sure is that it's more art than science.

Honestly I don't think you can do anything to entice others to bridge up; you might be doing all the "right" things but they aren't in the mood, are too tired, etc.

As far as trying to get a good gap or not, I think you should always try to get a good gap as soon as possible. If someone isn't strong enough to bridge, you probably don't want them there anyway.
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Old 02-16-15, 02:40 PM
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Keep the gap at a steady 10s or so for a while. 15s if you want stronger riders to bridge.

Not sure if this works in a RR where 10s may be out of sight or it may look really close if you can see, say, a mile+ of road in front of you.
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Old 02-16-15, 02:44 PM
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The best way is to make loud motorboat sounds with your mouth as you make your attack. And then once you have established any gap on the group, sing an Italian opera song, except with fake words that you have invented.
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Old 02-16-15, 03:29 PM
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there are 1400 things to consider but the general answer is to go hard. If you don't commit, your effort to get whatever gap you have is wasted. If you commit, you're probably still going to be caught. That's the game.

No break is strong enough to hold off a pack if the pack is motivated or moderately organized. But, if you commit and get any decent size lead, the likelyhood of being caught by bridge groups and not the entire pack increases. Get a big enough lead and the only guys who will catch you are the strongest, and they are who you want in the break anyway.
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Old 02-16-15, 03:41 PM
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If you are teamless, it's a lot higher percentage play to wait for somebody else to start a break, somebody with some support in the pack, and join them. One unattached guy off the front is not a very enticing party to join.
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Old 02-16-15, 05:52 PM
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Are you marked as either a sprinter or a 1 km attack guy? If so, then good luck with getting willing break partners unless your team is so strong that they can dictate everything for every race. Then it will be "Can I have another, sir?"

If instead you have lots of TT results and no corresponding mass start results then you will have lots of willing participants willing to have you drag them to victory.
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Old 02-16-15, 07:01 PM
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I don't know if there's a way to 'entice' riders to bridge up, per se, other than to just go hard and show them that you're serious. They're usually checking the horsepower that goes up the road. If they're not coming, it's probably because they don't like the composition.

If you dangle out there at 10 seconds for too long, they'll just think you've stalled out.
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Old 02-16-15, 08:15 PM
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Do the math before you ever leave the pack. See who is strong enough to go and is looking for an excuse. See who is likely to try to chase down any move that goes off the front. See who is barely hanging on and the weak man in the rotation. Pick the moment when everything aligns, and then bring the doughnuts.

If you're asking, you likely race in a pack that will chase down every break no matter who's in it. In that case, then you sit in and attack just after they catch up with the last break to try.
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Old 02-16-15, 09:04 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by mollusk View Post
Are you marked as either a sprinter or a 1 km attack guy? If so, then good luck with getting willing break partners unless your team is so strong that they can dictate everything for every race. Then it will be "Can I have another, sir?"

If instead you have lots of TT results and no corresponding mass start results then you will have lots of willing participants willing to have you drag them to victory.
I'm zero risk as a sprinter and marginal at 1K (but keep trying regardless). I've got a decent TT, but have not won a road race yet. "dragging others to victory" is a pretty decent description of some of my best road race results unfortunately.

Thanks for all the feedback from everyone. It sounds like I might be playing things a little safe by not pushing the break harder.
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Old 02-17-15, 10:28 AM
  #12  
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It's sort of a catch 22. If you are known as a breakaway threat then riders will bridge or the field will chase you down. Of course, you have to become a threat first.

I was off on a solo attack with less than 10 laps to go at Blue Hills last year. A rider bridged up and we were working well together with about a 25s gap. I found out later that my old teammate from the 80's stirred up the hornets nest in the field by telling a key rival that the winning break was up the road. He started the chase and we were caught with two to go. I ended up third behind Mr. Chase. So get to know your rivals and maybe try something like that to convince them to bridge with you.
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Old 02-17-15, 10:34 AM
  #13  
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Reputation is what entices me to join a break, that and the eye test. If the guy looks like he can pull it off than maybe I go. Of course this works better at the lower levels where some dudes are really fit and some dudes aren't.
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Old 02-17-15, 12:21 PM
  #14  
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This is a repeat of what others posted, I'm just registering a vote. I'm speaking from advice I've heard from other great racers what I have seen effective for Cat 2 juniors.

-If you want to try to minimize those that chase you/go with you - roll off smoothly looking as if you are not serious about any break.
-If you look strong and dedicated and like you found something that you want and no one else can have - they will all follow you there.
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Old 02-17-15, 12:38 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by furiousferret View Post
Reputation is what entices me to join a break,
x2
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Old 02-17-15, 04:03 PM
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http://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bi...l#post17562256
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Old 02-18-15, 09:10 AM
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Don't overthink it. Trying to select the right time for an attack to work is the hard part. When you do commit 100% to the initial move.

If your initial break is successful, but you find yourself alone or otherwise without sufficient firepower to make it to the end, you have two options:

1) ride at high tempo so you're not overcommitting yourself before you're either joined by others or caught, or

2) go all out anyway and hope to hell you were wrong about not being able to make it.

I can't comment on how number 1 works, because it's just some theory I hear others talk about. I can tell you that choice number 2 is awesome fun, whether it works out or not, which it sometimes does.

Once you've done the above a few times, you'll be back here posting inquiries about how to keep the entire field from trying to join your every attack.
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Old 02-23-15, 07:24 PM
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I raced Pace Bend 35+ 4/5' this past weekend and didn't have a chance to put any of this to the test. The race was super-short (24 miles) and the pack wasn't letting anyone get a gap. It was still a good day, the first time I've felt really strong in a race since 2013. Looking forward to lago vista in a couple weeks.

I had a couple teammates with break-away success at Pace Bend, so that made for a great day. One of our young Cat5's took off solo on the first lap and was never seen again. It was his second race, so everyone was stoked for him. We also got a 2nd place from a 2 man break in in the master's open.
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Old 03-09-15, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
it's a lot higher percentage play to wait for somebody else to start a break, somebody with some support in the pack, and join them. One unattached guy off the front is not a very enticing party to join.

^^^^ this

and especially, if you know who the danger guys are, just mark them and follow.
of all the breaks I've initiated I can only recall a few making it to the end. But of the breaks I've chased, much higher percentage.

I know, everybody wants to be the badass who soloes away or attacks and drags the break then wins the sprint.
Reality calling: you are not that guy. Use some smarts.
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Old 03-09-15, 06:17 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by grwoolf View Post
Pace Bend 35+ 4/5'
Ok then it doesn't matter - the the 4/5's will chase everything. The way to get away is to be the strongest, get a gap and tt away. There are very few successful breaks involving more than 1 rider in that cat.
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Old 03-10-15, 06:43 AM
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Sometimes it is better to join a break then try to initiate one yourself aswell. At this last years GMSR the break started 5 miles in because a couple strong GC guys got up the road by maybe 5-10 seconds. I am locally known as a breakaway sort of guy and I wasn't in that but the move looked like it had the necessary horsepower so I bridged to it.

That being said it really is about how great of a threat the break poses and how many people know it is a threat. If too many people known it will be chased.

Although one good way to entice others into a break is to try and establish one when someone with a large team tries to form a break. Everyone knows that when a large team has someone in the break there will be lots of blocking happening in the field so people will be more inclined to join in.
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Old 03-10-15, 08:49 AM
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it's really hard to do at the 4/5 level unless you're strong enough to go it alone successfully. but there's nothing wrong with talking to some other like minded racers/friends that you ride with on other teams/ or guys you see and talk to at races regularly, and making plans to go up the road together. there was a group of us that did this regularly when I was a 4 and there are a couple of guys I ride with all the time who are on a diff team and dont race much but when they do we always work together incognito, so we've had a lot of fun doing this.

collusion baby!
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Old 03-10-15, 07:52 PM
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Having equipment no one else has could be used to generate interest. "Come look at my shiny bits"
Attached Images
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Old 03-11-15, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
it's really hard to do at the 4/5 level unless you're strong enough to go it alone successfully. but there's nothing wrong with talking to some other like minded racers/friends that you ride with on other teams/ or guys you see and talk to at races regularly, and making plans to go up the road together. there was a group of us that did this regularly when I was a 4 and there are a couple of guys I ride with all the time who are on a diff team and dont race much but when they do we always work together incognito, so we've had a lot of fun doing this.

collusion baby!
Of course this requires a group of 4/5 racers who aren't all talk about attacking and are able to pull their heads out of their own asses once they're in a break and start rotating. Once those skills are learned, you're usually not going to be a 4 much longer.
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