Cycling Ethics...
03-07-15, 11:52 AM
#76
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Yup. I have seen that trick before, and seen DSQ come out of it. I have been very fortunate to have great officials as mentors. The one thing they have all said was, when scoring, what matters most is who is off the front and who is off the back. Get as much of the middle as you can but you must get the front and the back. We pay particular attention to the scenario you proposed. They don't even have to be teammates. Parking lot deals happen. So I would consider that a violation and report it to the Chief Referee.
03-07-15, 12:00 PM
#77
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It is somewhat vague what "lead" and "accept assistance" means..
3D4. Riders who have lost contact with the field, and are
then caught by a breakaway from the field, may not lead.
Riders off the front of the field may not accept assistance
from riders who have lost contact with the back of the field.
3D4. Riders who have lost contact with the field, and are
then caught by a breakaway from the field, may not lead.
Riders off the front of the field may not accept assistance
from riders who have lost contact with the back of the field.
How is that vague? This isn't an ethics question.
03-07-15, 02:26 PM
#78
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You're right. Its not getting caught. @globecanvas if this was done with a rider from another team is it clear it is allowed by the rules?
Last edited by Doge; 03-07-15 at 02:42 PM.
03-07-15, 02:41 PM
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That's a good one I have not seen. A non teammate from a parking lot deal is not a violation. Since I do not see teammates penalized doing this, I doubt you'd see non-teammates penalized when there is no rule against it. Is making a parking lot deal un-ethical or clever?
03-07-15, 02:52 PM
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I'm not sure where you are coming from, or where you are going with this. A rider off the back is not allowed to help a rider off the front. The rule says nothing about teammates. @shovelhd, who is an official, said clearly that he would consider it a violation regardless of whether the riders were teammates.
Just because you've seen the rule violated without the perps getting caught or punished does not make this a question of ethics. Unless you interpret ethics to mean "following the rules", in which case this thread which is nominally about ethics is exactly the same as the other thread about cheating.
I think you want to find some gray areas where riders can get an advantage without breaking the rules, as in your cutting-in-line-at-the-start scenario. But as before, you seem to be conflating "not breaking the rules" with "not getting caught."
Just because you've seen the rule violated without the perps getting caught or punished does not make this a question of ethics. Unless you interpret ethics to mean "following the rules", in which case this thread which is nominally about ethics is exactly the same as the other thread about cheating.
I think you want to find some gray areas where riders can get an advantage without breaking the rules, as in your cutting-in-line-at-the-start scenario. But as before, you seem to be conflating "not breaking the rules" with "not getting caught."
03-07-15, 03:50 PM
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I'm not sure where you are coming from, or where you are going with this. A rider off the back is not allowed to help a rider off the front. The rule says nothing about teammates. @shovelhd, who is an official, said clearly that he would consider it a violation regardless of whether the riders were teammates.
Just because you've seen the rule violated without the perps getting caught or punished does not make this a question of ethics. Unless you interpret ethics to mean "following the rules", in which case this thread which is nominally about ethics is exactly the same as the other thread about cheating.
I think you want to find some gray areas where riders can get an advantage without breaking the rules, as in your cutting-in-line-at-the-start scenario. But as before, you seem to be conflating "not breaking the rules" with "not getting caught."
Just because you've seen the rule violated without the perps getting caught or punished does not make this a question of ethics. Unless you interpret ethics to mean "following the rules", in which case this thread which is nominally about ethics is exactly the same as the other thread about cheating.
I think you want to find some gray areas where riders can get an advantage without breaking the rules, as in your cutting-in-line-at-the-start scenario. But as before, you seem to be conflating "not breaking the rules" with "not getting caught."
03-07-15, 03:54 PM
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I'm still waiting to find out what a DB is.
03-07-15, 04:34 PM
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Database. A collection of riders stored in one location along with information about them. I heard from a few places that USAC officials make reports that are entered into the DB that while not cheating are things they want to track. I recall (not searching for it) that you mentioned such a thing.
If such a thing exists and it contains non-cheating/non-disciplined actions by riders I'm wondering what those are.
Do you know of such a rider database?
If such a thing exists and it contains non-cheating/non-disciplined actions by riders I'm wondering what those are.
Do you know of such a rider database?
03-07-15, 06:11 PM
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Just wondering if @shovelhd entered puppy in based on my postings.
03-07-15, 06:17 PM
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@mattm remembers who I am talking about
03-07-15, 06:18 PM
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Ah here it is: https://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bi...l#post17144397
That is done using a database (DB) part of the software to support it in 2015.
See, they are watching us.
The SMS part - if they need help PM me. The any official part - I do that too.
See, they are watching us.
The SMS part - if they need help PM me. The any official part - I do that too.
Last edited by Doge; 03-07-15 at 06:39 PM.
03-07-15, 06:46 PM
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can't remember the name of that guy who was worried about us posting his location for fear of USAC retribution...
@mattm remembers who I am talking about
@mattm remembers who I am talking about
03-07-15, 06:59 PM
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So, as it likely does exist (and @shovelhd was just one source to suggest it), what is in it?
What is it that has not been penalized that they want to keep a record of?
USAC Code of Conduct violations are neither rule breaking nor cheating. I would like to think there is a DB for those violations too.
What is it that has not been penalized that they want to keep a record of?
USAC Code of Conduct violations are neither rule breaking nor cheating. I would like to think there is a DB for those violations too.
Last edited by Doge; 03-07-15 at 07:02 PM.
03-07-15, 08:24 PM
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It may be a database but it isn't what you think it is. I can query for rider and event. That's it. If I query on myself, it returns "No Citations Found".
03-07-15, 09:05 PM
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You guys are trying to smoke him out, its of no use. If the GPS devices in the cheese didn't work, this will not either. He has a particular set of skills, skills he has acquired over a short USAC career....
03-07-15, 09:19 PM
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Careful...I heard one can go blind doing that.
