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Cycling Ethics...

Old 03-07-15, 11:52 AM
  #76  
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Yup. I have seen that trick before, and seen DSQ come out of it. I have been very fortunate to have great officials as mentors. The one thing they have all said was, when scoring, what matters most is who is off the front and who is off the back. Get as much of the middle as you can but you must get the front and the back. We pay particular attention to the scenario you proposed. They don't even have to be teammates. Parking lot deals happen. So I would consider that a violation and report it to the Chief Referee.
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Old 03-07-15, 12:00 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
It is somewhat vague what "lead" and "accept assistance" means..

3D4. Riders who have lost contact with the field, and are
then caught by a breakaway from the field, may not lead.
Riders off the front of the field may not accept assistance
from riders who have lost contact with the back of the field.

How is that vague? This isn't an ethics question.
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Old 03-07-15, 02:26 PM
  #78  
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You're right. Its not getting caught. @globecanvas if this was done with a rider from another team is it clear it is allowed by the rules?

Last edited by Doge; 03-07-15 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 03-07-15, 02:41 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
... They don't even have to be teammates. Parking lot deals happen. So I would consider that a violation and report it to the Chief Referee.
That's a good one I have not seen. A non teammate from a parking lot deal is not a violation. Since I do not see teammates penalized doing this, I doubt you'd see non-teammates penalized when there is no rule against it. Is making a parking lot deal un-ethical or clever?
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Old 03-07-15, 02:52 PM
  #80  
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I'm not sure where you are coming from, or where you are going with this. A rider off the back is not allowed to help a rider off the front. The rule says nothing about teammates. @shovelhd, who is an official, said clearly that he would consider it a violation regardless of whether the riders were teammates.

Just because you've seen the rule violated without the perps getting caught or punished does not make this a question of ethics. Unless you interpret ethics to mean "following the rules", in which case this thread which is nominally about ethics is exactly the same as the other thread about cheating.

I think you want to find some gray areas where riders can get an advantage without breaking the rules, as in your cutting-in-line-at-the-start scenario. But as before, you seem to be conflating "not breaking the rules" with "not getting caught."
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Old 03-07-15, 03:50 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
I'm not sure where you are coming from, or where you are going with this. A rider off the back is not allowed to help a rider off the front. The rule says nothing about teammates. @shovelhd, who is an official, said clearly that he would consider it a violation regardless of whether the riders were teammates.

Just because you've seen the rule violated without the perps getting caught or punished does not make this a question of ethics. Unless you interpret ethics to mean "following the rules", in which case this thread which is nominally about ethics is exactly the same as the other thread about cheating.

I think you want to find some gray areas where riders can get an advantage without breaking the rules, as in your cutting-in-line-at-the-start scenario. But as before, you seem to be conflating "not breaking the rules" with "not getting caught."
Your right. Its cheating. Brain fart. But I see this mixing all the time. I will pay more attention to my post in this thread next time.
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Old 03-07-15, 03:54 PM
  #82  
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I'm still waiting to find out what a DB is.
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Old 03-07-15, 04:29 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
I'm still waiting to find out what a DB is.
Defensive Back
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Old 03-07-15, 04:34 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
I'm still waiting to find out what a DB is.
Database. A collection of riders stored in one location along with information about them. I heard from a few places that USAC officials make reports that are entered into the DB that while not cheating are things they want to track. I recall (not searching for it) that you mentioned such a thing.

If such a thing exists and it contains non-cheating/non-disciplined actions by riders I'm wondering what those are.

Do you know of such a rider database?
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Old 03-07-15, 04:45 PM
  #85  
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usac is working with the nsa on tracking violations via phone, sms, and social media.
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Old 03-07-15, 06:11 PM
  #86  
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Just wondering if @shovelhd entered puppy in based on my postings.
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Old 03-07-15, 06:17 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
usac is working with the nsa on tracking violations via phone, sms, and social media.
can't remember the name of that guy who was worried about us posting his location for fear of USAC retribution...
@mattm remembers who I am talking about
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Old 03-07-15, 06:18 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
I'm still waiting to find out what a DB is.
Ah here it is: https://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bi...l#post17144397
Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
I can can tell you going forward that USAC will be rolling out a Bad Rider program and software to support it for 2015. Any rider issues that have been reported to USAC will be available to any licensed official. ...
That is done using a database (DB) part of the software to support it in 2015.

See, they are watching us.

The SMS part - if they need help PM me. The any official part - I do that too.

Last edited by Doge; 03-07-15 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 03-07-15, 06:46 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
That is done using a database (DB) part of the software to support it in 2015.

See, they are watching us.
Welcome to the 1980's, USAC. When my niece gets done watching Twilight maybe she can help write the code.

Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
can't remember the name of that guy who was worried about us posting his location for fear of USAC retribution...
@mattm remembers who I am talking about
Jancouver.
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Old 03-07-15, 06:50 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by furiousferret View Post



Jancouver.



shhhhhhhhhhhh
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Old 03-07-15, 06:59 PM
  #91  
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So, as it likely does exist (and @shovelhd was just one source to suggest it), what is in it?

What is it that has not been penalized that they want to keep a record of?
USAC Code of Conduct violations are neither rule breaking nor cheating. I would like to think there is a DB for those violations too.

Last edited by Doge; 03-07-15 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 03-07-15, 07:25 PM
  #92  
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a DB of db's I guess.
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cat 1.

my race videos
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Old 03-07-15, 08:24 PM
  #93  
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It may be a database but it isn't what you think it is. I can query for rider and event. That's it. If I query on myself, it returns "No Citations Found".
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Old 03-07-15, 08:25 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Just wondering if @shovelhd entered puppy in based on my postings.
That would be unethical.
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Old 03-07-15, 08:50 PM
  #95  
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the cycling permanent record ... like the one we all feared as 10 year olds.
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Old 03-07-15, 08:56 PM
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what's it return on Jancouver.. BOTL?
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Old 03-07-15, 09:05 PM
  #97  
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You guys are trying to smoke him out, its of no use. If the GPS devices in the cheese didn't work, this will not either. He has a particular set of skills, skills he has acquired over a short USAC career....
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Old 03-07-15, 09:17 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
...If I query on myself, it returns "No Citations Found".
Well yea, and you likely have your own e-mail server at your house.
How often do you query yourself?
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Old 03-07-15, 09:19 PM
  #99  
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Careful...I heard one can go blind doing that.
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Old 03-08-15, 09:19 AM
  #100  
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