Old 05-20-04, 03:27 AM
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New Zealand Schools gearing - it just got confusing....(LONG)

Well they are initiating some changes to school gearing.

I started a thread on cyclingnz.com - and it is rip roaring confusing!

http://www.cyclingnz.co.nz/forums/re...?f=8&i=65&t=65

Author: Brendon England (---.orcon.net.nz)
Date: 05-19-04 01:55

Is it true that for schools champs (e.g. nationals road race) we will be able to use club U19 gearing of 52x14?

Brendon




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Re: school champs and gearing
Author: troycnz (---.jetstream.xtra.co.nz)
Date: 05-19-04 14:03

This is how is goes now.... Please note if you are not sure about what this says please either;

email: troy@cyclingnz.com

phone: Troy on 486-3660

come into: Multisport Bikes, 44 Barry's Point Road, Takapuna

ok... here’s the deal.

ASSC TTT events: All grades 6.61m (water front TTT events)

………………….

Mt Wellington:
Junior, Intermediate boys & girls: 6.61m
Senior boys & girls: 7.94m (same as under 19 club racing, 52 x 14)

………………….

North Islands TTT event: All grades 6.61m (at Ngawahia)

North Island Road Race event:
Junior, Intermediate boys & girls: 6.61m
Senior boys & girls: 7.93m (same as under 19 club racing, 52 x 14)

………………….

Nationals TTT event: All grades 6.61m (at Palmerston North)

Nationals Road Race / Criterium:
Junior, Intermediate boys & girls: 6.61m
Senior boys & girls: 7.93m (same as under 19 club racing, 52 x 14)


PLEASE NOTE: SENIOR RIDERS.

When you purchase a bike it normally comes with a 53t chain ring on the front, this is normally fine with a 17t on the rear for TTT events, but if you adjusted your gearing and opened it up to the 14t with the same 53t on the front you will be way over geared. Max gearing on a standard 23mm tyre is 52x14




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Re: school champs and gearing
Author: Brendon England (---.orcon.net.nz)
Date: 05-19-04 17:19

If that's the case Troy, How much would a 52T ring cost me?? and the special tool to fit the back of the bolts. It is to fit a FSA Gossamer crankset 130mm bcd.

Brendon




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Re: school champs and gearing
Author: Sam (---.auckland.clix.net.nz)
Date: 05-19-04 21:57

Dont you think that is stupid making the gearing bigger for senior at Mt wellington?

All those records the where set earlier will get smashed and wont mean any thing

Well atleast your not changing the Intermediate gearing cause i got that record haha

But just think bout it for a while the general concensus around is that all gearing for school racing shoud stay 6.610m thats the fun of school racing all the big boys have to go back to novie gears to see who has the leg speed

Just have a think bout it
Cheer Cheer
Sam




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Re: school champs and gearing
Author: Graeme Hunn (---.dialup.xtra.co.nz)
Date: 05-19-04 22:45

Theres some change of age for the NI Champs, not sure about Mt Welly & Nationals.

TTT
J Girls U16 at 1 Jan
J Boys U16 at 1 Jan
S girls U20 at 1 Jan
S Boys U20 at 1 Jan
all 6.61m rollout

Road races
Girls U15 at 1 Jan
Girls U17 at 1 Jan
Girls U20 at 1 Jan - 7.93m
Boys U14 at 1 Jan
Boys U15 at 1 Jan
Boys U17 at 1 Jan
Boys U20 at 1 Jan - 7.93m




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Re: school champs and gearing
Author: Brendon England (---.orcon.net.nz)
Date: 05-20-04 01:28

U20? what is the point in that? Most guys would of left school.

Let me say a thing or 2 about age groups.

I am 17 atm. I turn 18 in december.

Under current schools U19 rules (under at 1st Jan) I could race next year as U19, if I decide to do a second year as 7th form.

Under current club U19 rules, next year I will be U23. And i'll only be 18. There is a wee bit of inconsistency between schools and clubs, but I feel that the incorporation of the club U19 gear rollout limits is a step in the right direction.

As to making us use 6.610m and spin the crap out of our legs in a road race Sam, last year I raced U19 RR and we were doing 60kmh~ in restricted gears.... I was on 172.5mm cranks and spinning like a crazed pyscho on P. I now have a bike that fits me better and has 175mm cranks - I can no longer spin that fast, but these cranks are better suited to my body type. I feel that it's fairer on the field with a bigger gear rollout as it allows us to use a gear that best suits us and allows us to perform to our utmost.

Brendon




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Re: school champs and gearing
Author: Graeme Hunn (---.tvnz.co.nz)
Date: 05-20-04 12:50

Many people talk about restricted gears being the best for riding development, and learning to pedal. I'm sure there is some truth to that. However there are many developed cycling countries producing world class athletes without gear restrictions. So I'm not so convinced about that.

However what is beyond dispute is that restricted gears even up the racing. The events with 7.93m rollout will see less bunch action, more agression and breaks, and probably a smaller bunch finish. Now thats great, if the standard is even, however in schools cycling there is a wide cross section of ability & experience. Will those at the back end of the field feel so inclined to come back when they have been reemed by experienced riders.

So the 2 points of view that require an airing - restricted gearing which makes for closer and even racing giving new riders a better feel for the sport, and probably more fun.

or open gears which plays into the hands of the experienced hardened riders. To answer it secondary cycling needs to confirm what its objective is.




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Re: school champs and gearing
Author: Brendon England (203.97.42.---)
Date: 05-20-04 14:21

quote: "Will those at the back end of the field feel so inclined to come back when they have been reemed by experienced riders."

Even with restricted 6.610m rollout, people are getting reemed in the U19 road races. Ngrawahia last year...most riders got spat out the back by about 11km (my brother was here). I got spat out after 33km, and rode solo to the finish without being caught - 20km without being caught shows how far back other bunches were behind the lead group! And I was truely hammered from trying to keep with the bunch, so wasn't riding too fast.

Nationals - Got spat out the back on first decent hill... I could not spin fast enough. In this race most of the kids my age were racing the U17 tour of manawatu? So there was mostly "the big guys" and I came in the last 4.... that is reemed.




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Re: school champs and gearing
Author: matt (---.jetstart.xtra.co.nz)
Date: 05-20-04 15:40

with a 53x14 you are right on the limit of the gear limit for u19, i use a 53 and i roll out bang on the mark but if your gonna ride a 53 id check it out first but it would save you a couple of hundred bucks.

i think as far as the gearing changes go its a great idea

it means that there is more of a progression in shcool racing so that when people who only ride school racing decide to start riding at club racing etc it is not so much of a jump

for example i know alot of people who only ever rode school boy racing and never got any club racing because it was just to hard to try and race with seniors etc who have been racing on bigger gears for 10+ years and so when they left school last year they stopped riding and that seems like a big waste of talent all because that they rode school boy racing which effectivley shellterd them from hard real world racing.

by upping the gear restriction it will give people who only ever ride for school a taste of what real racing is like. it will also mean that the better riders will actually start taking some intrest in the races which will up the quality of racing because i know for a fact that last year (and most years before that for this matter) the top u19 cyclists could not have cared less about a 50km rr on novice gears and this will quite likley change with this change in the gear limit




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Re: school champs and gearing
Author: Graeme Hunn (---.tvnz.co.nz)
Date: 05-20-04 19:51

I'm not trying to say which is right, open & restricted gearings have their positives, but they are quite different. Therefore the sport needs to make a conscious decision as to what it wants to achieve.

From my view, I wasn't for the U15 CNZ rule of 6.0m rollout, mainly because it was difficult for parents & people new to the sport to manage it. However the positive was closer racing with more people in contention, this isn't a bad objective.

I agree that 7.93m U19 gears help the transition to bigger racing, but are all of those U19 schoold riders ready for it because it will lead to a completly different racing style and more people getting dropped. This is what the sport must be comfortable with, it's not just providing competition for the top 10 or 20% of riders.




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Re: school champs and gearing
Author: troycnz (---.m1.cpiak1-n8.callplus.net.nz)
Date: 05-21-04 00:51


Just to add a little more to this whole confusing gearing chat, under 15 riders at school events at this stage will be required to use 6.0m not 6.61m. (individual events only)

Now before you all go...what? I am in process of making a list of all events, ages, gearings that you the riders will be abel to use.

It will be very confusing for some of you and not so for others. In the report I will give you a contact number in each town where you can go and get things checked out. This list will also include bike shops were you can get the job done correctly. There is a lot of bike shops around that do not have a lot to do with road bikes / schools cycling and will not know what you are talking about. For these shops you will be able to do 3 things, 1. find a shop that does know. 2. print of the information I post on this website soon, or 3. get the bike shop to call me (again detials soon)

So to make my job a little quicker please email me on troy@cyclingnz.com with your age and what town you are from. Then I can make sure I get things covered for you.

Please be aware this infomation will come out around 14 days before the first event which is North Islands in July.

This is very important information and you need to know what we are talking about pretty quickly. Here is the basic reason why.

North Island event in July. Everyone does the Team Time Trial in the morning over a 16km course in your school teams, the gearing used by ALL teams, riders is 6.61m.

Then a few hours later everyone races in a individual road race. At this stage under 15 riders (juniors) & under 20 riders (seniors) will be required to change these gearing. Juniors to 6.0m and Seniors to 7.93m

At a guess (I will check later) 95% of the under 15 riders will not have a clue about what 6.0m gearing is so having the 60+ riders trying to change it within 2 hours with no bike shops etc around just will not happen correctly or with out major hassles.

Now the under 20 (seniors) are not so bad, I understand 50% of the seniors (numbers from last year) are members of Bike NZ, if so that 50% will know about the gearing and will have it all ready. The other 50% would be allowed to race on 6.61m but would be disadvantaged due to being under geared.

So overall, we www.cyclingnz.com who are here to provide as much info to all schools / kids as possible will go out and get all the info you need to be able to help your self quickly and easily.

If you can't wait for the info to be posted in the next few weeks, please email me and ask your question.

Sorry about the long message, but beleive me they will be getting longer by the end of this subject.

troy@cyclingnz.com




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Re: school champs and gearing
Author: Brendon England (---.orcon.net.nz)
Date: 05-21-04 01:17

FFS...... this is getting stupid.

I was thinking...
If numbers start to get high enough to permit it, perhaps we could SPLIT the seniors racing into 2 seperate grades....novice U20 (first year racers) and experienced U20 (have raced previous year with clubs as BikeNZ membership, or with schools racing).
Novice U20 race 6.610
Experienced U20 race 7.93 (thought it was .94?)

Just a thought!
Brendon
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