Thanks Smokester, but no, I can't get to first base with any of these guys. I have to say that Gene at Spicer cycles has worked with me but we're 500miles apart. I just called Canondale today and asked if they could get a measurement from the bars down to the floor and they said they would get back to me by Monday. I called the Randonee factory and they said they don't have any in stock to measure. I did ask both bike factories if they have specs on the bikes that I could go buy, they said no. Now how do they expect someone to buy a bike by looking at a picture. Even if you got measured, I think you would still want to ride the bike before committing yourself. Maybe I'm missing something or these bike shops think they got gold or something, but I'm just about ready to hang it up. Anyhow thanks for the replys guy. Maybe I'll see you out there on my Jamis Coda Elite, it is a nice bike by the way.
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George