thankyou everyone for the suggestions. I've been down the 401 many times and I was going to try to avoid the metro TO area and shot a little north and either shot down and follow the shoreline of lake ontario so I could make a stop in kingston, which is a town I really like, or stay north and shot across to Ottawa and then go south to the boarder, I guess I'll do some hypatheical routes on google maps when I get the time.