Originally Posted by Abneycat

The fact is, the technology is out there, but there seems to be an inconsistency in product levels. One such innovation is increasing the radius of the hub motor, increasing the speed between the magnets and windings which allows for a much lighter motor. BionX kits weigh very little, if not anything more than a frame motor, once you account for the fact that instead of having to add pieces as with a frame motor, you actually negate the weight of your old wheel. Heinzmann kits are lighter than anything Crystalyte offers by quite a bit, and considerably more powerful. They're built with an extreme level of precision and quality, nothing cut rate about them.

The thing is, when you go out and buy a kit, regardless of if its frame or not, it seems that the trend is this:
1. unreliable lowest end products: you get what you paid for. paid for crap? guess what?!
2. basic workhorses. reliable but simple: Crystalyte, Cyclone, all that jazz.
3. astronomically priced connoisseurs products.

Where's the "higher end" line?
It doesn't exist from what I can tell. How about a line for frame motors with good housing, direct hubs with radial improvements, or a cheaper internally geared system?

What'd be nice is to see a Crystalyte style motor with the radial weight savings of the BionX, but keeping in line with the non-proprietary, no frills Crystalyte stance. Skip the cute little controller, the proprietary pieces and just make the one radial improvement. So far as I know, the P2 is already filling in that sort of gap on the geared motor side, its Heinzmann design without the desire to be a rolling work of art. Simple, but better.

It'd be great to see a line of frame motors with included proper protection from the elements and a design thats intended to be utterly simplistic, the worst being that you have to lubricate and clean it.

It'd also be great to see a company working on ebike accessories: Nicer throttles, universal frame mount battery cases or a tough frame bag that locks shut, holds your batteries securely, and has ports on it for the charger and wiring. This isn't stuff thats just for the rich, its just stuff thats considered useful and non-frivolous, something any e-bike user could benefit from, regardless of their drivetrain choice.

You speak of numbers like you're trying to build a cyclocross e-bike, when most people want a reliable product that'll carry them and their junk around the city. When I hear how you talk about the extra 7-8lbs from the hub system like its something only an idiot would accept, but then look at your junk bicycle frames, components, and gutted practicality, it doesn't make much sense to me. I'd take a bike with a Crystalyte and Deore/X7 level parts over a frame motor + huffy any day: that'd be a bike you could count on to ride.

As for reliability, at this point its my personal opinion that you know absolutely nothing about it, because any decent hub motor provides a very high level of reliability. You should go tell Heinzmann customers that their motors are timebombs, they'll laugh in your face.

Practical E-bikes are born with fenders and a rack, and in all practicality, a few additional pounds matters very little. Unless you're completely incapable of using a normal bicycle within normal conditions, the thought that 15lbs is a deal breaker is simply entertaining. I'll have to tell my cycling group that we can't do banff next year because the weight limit on hill climbs is apparently now just about 20lbs. Hm.. And to think we've been doing it with all those pounds of gear, all this time. What matters more to the average person is that their bike is going to roll out the door day after day, no squeaky noises, no breakdowns, no worries. You think 7lbs is going to ruin the experience? Hm, not quite like promoting a bike without pedals is.