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Old 05-11-15, 09:06 AM   #101
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Fair enough, and I hear ya.

Thankfully, BF also has a special police task force that seems quite happy monitoring said safety nannies… tirelessly pointing out their infractions in a never ending attempt to keep them in line. Eh, I suppose someone has to do it. Thank you, Sir!
Ah yes, the ILTB special curmudgeon thread monitoring task force... I wonder if he checks spelling too.
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Old 05-11-15, 10:03 AM   #102
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Fair enough, and I hear ya.

Thankfully, BF also has a special police task force that seems quite happy monitoring said safety nannies… tirelessly pointing out their infractions in a never ending attempt to keep them in line. Eh, I suppose someone has to do it. Thank you, Sir!
I do my best to point out the A&S negative bicycling advocacy of the safety nannies, especially their juvenile approach to evaluating risk and desire to provide the ultimate/optimal all purpose safety policy/advice to strangers.

The ranting by bicycling safety nannys cannot be kept in line by civil means and they will repeat their HennyPenny-like wailing about the inability for anyone to cycle safely unless their "obvious truths" about use or non use of cell phones, headphones, helmets, dayglow apparel, "communications", dazzling light displays, etc. are complied with by everyone.
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Old 05-11-15, 10:07 AM   #103
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Ah yes, the ILTB special curmudgeon thread monitoring task force... I wonder if he checks spelling too.
I'll let you know if you misspell cell phone or motorist malfeasance (or equivalent); so far with umpteen rants on those topics, you spelled them correctly every darn time, over and over.
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Old 05-11-15, 10:36 AM   #104
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I have no doubt that some of the safety nannys are driven by their own inability to simultaneously chew gum and walk or ride a bike or a fear that somebody/somewhere might not be able to handle this task.

Is that a good reason why everybody/anybody else should refrain from a relatively safe activity?
Care to define "SFW"?
Just for the record I can ride my bents, and chew gum at the same time.
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Old 05-11-15, 10:42 AM   #105
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^^^

I forgot how fun A&S can be!
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Old 05-11-15, 10:58 AM   #106
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Just for the record I can ride my bents, and chew gum at the same time.
Any pictures, videos, or some other reference documenting this claim?
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Old 05-11-15, 11:13 AM   #107
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Any pictures, videos, or some other reference documenting this claim?
No one is documenting this... there are no statistics... so apparently it just didn't happen. And if it did, it was probably statistically insigificant.
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Old 05-11-15, 11:44 AM   #108
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I suspect it's as safe as driving while texting... Most people can and do almost certainly "get away" with it,...? Or at least it seems like they certainly can, but sooner or latter... It's going to hurt. JMO.
I really hope you are joking about comparing the two.

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Don't do it. It would be analogous to, a motorist on their cell phone. Do you want a motorist on their cell phone?
Not nearly the same.

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I don't have any "research", or "evidence", but I can say for sure from a lifetime of experience that that I feel safer on a bicycle or motorcycle than in a car specifically because I'm more aware of my environment, as I'm immersed in it rather than insulated from it, and hearing is a part of that.
On the same token, I have encountered joggers and cyclists who are not aware of their environment, and are nearly impossible to communicate to, which is an issue if they are blocking the way, stop, or flip a U-turn.

I agree about the usual suspects spouting their hysterical nonsense, but its not a consideration that is black and white. Some people don't like the the distraction, and others don't use them safely or responsibly.

If your experience makes you feel safer on a bike or motorcycle than you do in your car, you need more experience.

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What if you are on a bike path... and the peds are walking 4 abreast with headphones on... or even without headphones on. A bit of communication can make the difference.

Your "find a wider road to ride" is akin to motorists telling us to not ride on the road. We can all share if we just make a bit of room for one another and don't treat what ever facility we are using as an "I own this" affair. That means you have to be conscious and aware of others.
I found that the little bell on my bike does not suffice under these circumstances. I yell, very loudly, which seems to work much better. I was thinking about getting a small pocket air horn.
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Old 05-11-15, 12:07 PM   #109
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If your experience makes you feel safer on a bike or motorcycle than you do in your car, you need more experience.
Well, as a trained professional driver who's on the road 8 to 10 hours a day, I have plenty of "experience", and it also puts more weight behind my opinions than casual, or amateur road users.
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Old 05-11-15, 12:20 PM   #110
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Well, as a trained professional driver who's on the road 8 to 10 hours a day, I have plenty of "experience", and it also puts more weight behind my opinions than casual, or amateur road users.
You may "feel safer" but after many, many years of experience I can tell you that you have a much better chance of having your brains splattered onto the roadway after being hit on a bike or motorcycle than you do your car.
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Old 05-11-15, 12:38 PM   #111
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You may "feel safer" but after many, many years of experience I can tell you that you have a much better chance of having your brains splattered onto the roadway after being hit on a bike or motorcycle than you do your car.
The consequences of a collision is a different concern than having the awareness and confidence to avoid them in the first place.
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Old 05-11-15, 02:56 PM   #112
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Five pages and no one has mentioned John Allen's article on topic.
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Old 05-11-15, 03:40 PM   #113
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The consequences of a collision is a different concern than having the awareness and confidence to avoid them in the first place.
I guess my point was not clear: you may feel safer, but you are not.
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Old 05-11-15, 03:52 PM   #114
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Any pictures, videos, or some other reference documenting this claim?
I would post a video of me riding my bent and chewing gum, but it would inflame the ladies on the forum, and the thread would derail. It could lead to ladies flogging their husbands and leading to divorces. I just wouldnt want that on my record.
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Old 05-11-15, 04:00 PM   #115
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my statement




For Pedestrians:

Lichenstein R, Smith D, Ambrose J, Moody L. "Headphone use and pedestrian injury and death in the United States: 2004-2011." Injury Prevention. Published online January 17, 2012. doi10.1136/injuryprev-2011-040161.




For Cyclists

The use and risk of portable electronic devices while cycling among different age groups C. Goldenbeld a, ⁎, M. Houtenbos a , E. Ehlers b , D. De Waard c
Journal of Safety Research, 11 January 2012

There are also numerous news articles where the wearing of earphones has been implicated in cyclist injury or death. They are, however, just news reports. I also found that this link: Sights unseen from elsewhere in this thread to be interesting and relevant.

I hope this helps.

r

First of all, the vast majority of crashes discussed in that study are minor tumbles that did not involve another vehicle. Secondly, there was no significant association between portable electronic device use and crashes for the 35-50 and 50+ groups.
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Old 05-11-15, 04:06 PM   #116
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Try it out and see how safe you feel.

From experience, I feel safest with a single earbud in my right ear.

My commute is fairly dull and I'm bored with it, so if I'm listening to something intellectually stimulating for me (audiobook or whatever--NOT music), then I stay perked up and mentally aware of everything around me. If I'm not listening to anything, then I start to daydream and I'll stop paying attention to stuff around me.

Also, with a single earbud, I hear cars just fine coming up behind me.
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Old 05-11-15, 04:16 PM   #117
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As others have mentioned, I also insert just one of the earbuds on the non-traffic side. The isolating earbuds work pretty good as you can keep volume moderate/low. Certain music helps me sometimes with keeping a pedaling cadence ... kind of a motivator push. Also, I got into habit of always using a mirror on my bike's handlebars, and so, I'm highly aware of my surroundings as I ride.
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Old 05-11-15, 05:58 PM   #118
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These five pages of discussion, and at least about ten previously similarly long threads have not convinced me, FWIW.

(and probably my twenty or so long posts about wearing a rearview mirror have not convinced anyone either).
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Old 05-11-15, 06:31 PM   #119
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To the pro ear bud users I ask, dont you just love the jogger or biker right in the middle of the trail that cant hear your call "on your left"?
I can hear 100% as well with one ear bud in listening to audiobooks as I can with no earbud. I've tested this carefully. I would not ever ride with two, just as I would not ever drive a car with the radio up so loud I couldn't hear a car horn or a siren.
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Old 05-11-15, 07:08 PM   #120
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I would post a video of me riding my bent and chewing gum, but it would inflame the ladies on the forum, and the thread would derail. It could lead to ladies flogging their husbands and leading to divorces. I just wouldnt want that on my record.
A man of Honor. Good comeback, ryda!
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Old 05-12-15, 12:18 PM   #121
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I bought one of these for $9, and strap on the trunk/rack behind me.
HMDX portable speaker

It's loud enough to hear without being too loud to obscure traffic sounds that I may need to hear.
I plug my iPod into it (no bluetooth required)
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Old 05-12-15, 07:38 PM   #122
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First of all, the vast majority of crashes discussed in that study are minor tumbles that did not involve another vehicle. Secondly, there was no significant association between portable electronic device use and crashes for the 35-50 and 50+ groups.
Thank you very much for your courteous reply.


The purpose of my response to your request was:

1) To show that there are some serious inquiries into this topic.
2) A loosely parallel group (pedestrians) have been shown to be at risk
3) There are some anecdotal news reports, but they are only suggestive that there may be a problem. (They're news reports afterall)
4) "Sights Unseen" which discusses the problem of "distraction" which, to me, is behind all this.

For me, the main value of " The use and risk of portable electronic devices while cycling " is the Introduction which I think discusses the issues of the use of electronic devices while cycling quite well. In his bibliography he cites another of his studies where he tested the effect of listening to music on response to an auditory "stop" command. Cute little study.

Your comments are correct. But he also found a sub-group (Age 12-17 in large urban areas) that had a 2.5X crash rate (for unknown reasons). The risk for teens using an electronic device (mainly listening to music) was quite a bit higher than if they didn't. But these are observations. Cause and effect are another thing - simply food for thought.

Finally, the severity of the crashes is consistent, as I recall, with other studies. The one that comes to mind is the Seattle one c.2000 which showed that only 10% of cyclists injured in crashes were hospitalised (and I think only something like .2% died).

Thanx again

r
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Old 05-12-15, 09:48 PM   #123
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I had the joy today of riding behind a cyclist with his earbuds in singing along aloud and, I kid you not, dancing - with his arms. That is, he kept sticking out his right arm and pointing. It was funny but I kept expecting him to turn right and he never did. He was going fairly slow but I hesitated to pass him as I was afraid I might get an unexpected smack in the face.
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Old 05-13-15, 10:01 AM   #124
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Depends on my daily mood, but I have zero qualms about putting an earbud in. I don't usually use both...I do like to hear traffic as it approaches - keeping one foot in reality as I tend to be absorbed by what I am listening to. I don't use mirrors and there are some spots on my commute where I tend to ride more in the center of the lane but if I hear an approaching car I'll move over
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Old 05-13-15, 10:08 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I do my best to point out the A&S negative bicycling advocacy of the safety nannies, especially their juvenile approach to evaluating risk and desire to provide the ultimate/optimal all purpose safety policy/advice to strangers.

The ranting by bicycling safety nannys cannot be kept in line by civil means and they will repeat their HennyPenny-like wailing about the inability for anyone to cycle safely unless their "obvious truths" about use or non use of cell phones, headphones, helmets, dayglow apparel, "communications", dazzling light displays, etc. are complied with by everyone.
nail on he gosh dang head, right there.
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