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Headphones & Cycling?

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Headphones & Cycling?

Old 08-05-16, 01:34 PM
  #176  
Camilo
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Originally Posted by boompanes View Post
For some reason it's okay for people to listen to music in there car but it is some how wrong to do it as a cyclist. As if some how being able to hear the car before it hits you is suppose to some how magically improve your safety. There are some really good articles on cycling with headphones.

On bicycling, the sense of hearing and headphones

https://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6...3276-1,00.html

Headphones Unboxed | Best Headphones, Headsets and Earbuds Reviews
I haven't read all of the referenced articles, but here's a quote from one that I totally agree with:
"Contrast the facts I have just recited with the distorted, popular view of the role of the sense of hearing for bicyclists. This view is based on several assumptions, namely:
  1. The incorrect assumption that bicycling is inherently very dangerous, and the related assumption that safety always outweighs all other considerations, for example bicyclists' enjoyment of their sport or their need to communicate.
  2. The assumption that a bicyclist can and should be held responsible for actively avoiding accidents for which only the sense of hearing might provide a warning;
  3. The assumption that the sense of hearing is useful and reliable enough that it is essential to safe bicycle operation.
These assumptions most commonly are expressed as condemnations of headphone use while bicycling."
My experience - in 40+ years riding on the road is that cycling is not "very" dangerous, but rather, slightly dangerous and that hearing does not meaningfully improve safety compared to smart, aware, forward thinking, defensive riding.

Don't get me wrong: there are situations where I don't listen to my ear buds - group rides, heavy urban traffic, complicated riding situations. Mostly out of courtesy, need to communicate directly with other riders, or the riding is just too noisy or distracting to make listening practical or enjoyable.

But those are exceptions to my particular riding habits, not the rule.
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Old 08-07-16, 10:17 AM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by The Pusher Man View Post
Biking is 99% visual and 1% audible. If you want to increase your situational awareness put mirrors on your bike.
I suppose that depends on the situation. On the highway I hear cars from a long way off and it gives me a chance to check them in the mirror to see if they're giving me space. On trails I can hear people letting me know they're passing. It's always a bit disconcerting to be passed by a silent vehicle such as an ebike and annoying to be uncertain if a runner or bladder hears your bell.
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Old 08-07-16, 07:22 PM
  #178  
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Camilo; you described cycling with in-ear phones as "perfectly safe"
Please define perfectly safe for me.
Because if they are "perfectly safe" why did you go on to say in a later post that there are at least three situations where you don't wear them?
Do you not understand what the term 'perfectly safe' actually means?
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Old 08-08-16, 03:11 PM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by captbixley View Post
I believe there are many deaf people out there safely riding their bikes as I type.
Yup. The argument against wearing headphones on a bike is founded on this strange idea that being able to freely hear is so fundamentally important to safe cycling that riding should not even be allowed in cases where the ability to hear is compromised.

Which I guess means that the "no headphone" people are implicitly saying that deaf people should be banned from riding bicycles?
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Old 08-08-16, 07:05 PM
  #180  
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I only wear a pair of BT headphones for Runkeepr updates. To much happening around on must hear.
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Old 08-09-16, 06:26 AM
  #181  
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Earphones and cycling do not mix. You cant hear traffic, and you cant hear someone saying on you left.
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Old 08-09-16, 06:30 AM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
Just curious...why on earth is hearing cars important? I personally can't think of any scenario where hearing a car could possibly impact my safety while riding.
You have to be kidding. EVERY TIME I hear a car behind me I check my rear view mirror to see if the car is going to safely pass. What if the car is driven by a teen on their smart phone or a drunk heading right for you??? I am always prepared to dump to the ditch if this is the case.
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Old 08-11-16, 10:42 AM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
You have to be kidding. EVERY TIME I hear a car behind me I check my rear view mirror to see if the car is going to safely pass. What if the car is driven by a teen on their smart phone or a drunk heading right for you??? I am always prepared to dump to the ditch if this is the case.
How many times has that actually happened to you?
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Old 08-11-16, 11:05 AM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Earphones and cycling do not mix. You cant hear traffic, and you cant hear someone saying on you left.
A. Maybe true. Depends on the earphones and volume of listening.

B. Even then, so what?

Again, is the ability to hear traffic sounds or "on your left" so crucial that it would be a total deal-breaker if you couldn't? That it would truly make it impossible to ride a bike at an acceptable level of safety?

All the anti-earphone people should ask themselves this: If you contracted some sort of unfortunate illness that left you completely and permanently deaf, would you just stop riding your bicycle forever?

I'd imagine the answer is "no" for most of you, because you would (correctly) realize that, while being able to hear what is going on around you is nice, the inability to do so does not in any way prevent you from safely operating your bicycle.

Incidentally, I generally prefer not to ride with earphones myself--haven't done it in probably a decade. But it has nothing to do with perceiving it as being dangerous. Although I do usually wear earphones when I go for a run (but not in actual races). I'm sure there's a running forum where people are make the same arguments about that there too.
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Old 08-11-16, 01:17 PM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by SB739 View Post
As I get into cycling, I've been wondering if it's safe to have earphones in whilst cycling.
Dumb de dumb dumb duuuuumb....

Get a stationary bike. Set a big box fan right in front of it and hang a towel over the handle bars for mopping up sweat. Then tune out all of your senses if you want to. I used to ride on a trainer inside the house, crank up some Pink Floyd or Yes and turn out all of the lights. 'Twas a religious experience. No...I was not on rollers!

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Old 08-12-16, 01:38 PM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Dumb de dumb dumb duuuuumb....
Not dumb. Just keep the volume reasonable, ride carefully, defensively and proactively and you'll be fine.

Wind noise obscures my hearing a lot more than the music I listen to.

Last edited by Camilo; 08-12-16 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 08-12-16, 01:55 PM
  #187  
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Just saying... I don't know of anyone who was killed by their first cigarette ever. Or in many cases even their 100th. Some in fact made it all the way through a life and were eventually felled by some other happenstance than a cigarette related malady. Is it reasonable to conclude from this that smoking cigarettes is a best practice?
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Old 08-12-16, 03:42 PM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Just saying... I don't know of anyone who was killed by their first cigarette ever. Or in many cases even their 100th. Some in fact made it all the way through a life and were eventually felled by some other happenstance than a cigarette related malady. Is it reasonable to conclude from this that smoking cigarettes is a best practice?
One might get away with it for a while, or perhaps forever. Why add one more thing to the list of things that would make a relatively dangerous situation even worse - cycling on roadways + limiting your sensory input. I am sticking by my assertion that this is just not very smart. But unlike second-hand smoke, someone wearing headphones on their bike will likely have zero effect on me personally so...rock on brothers, rock on!
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Old 08-12-16, 06:12 PM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
One might get away with it for a while, or perhaps forever. Why add one more thing to the list of things that would make a relatively dangerous situation even worse - cycling on roadways + limiting your sensory input. I am sticking by my assertion that this is just not very smart. But unlike second-hand smoke, someone wearing headphones on their bike will likely have zero effect on me personally so...rock on brothers, rock on!
Probably our basic point of disagreement is in our general assessment of cycling. I noticed in another thread where (IIRC) you said you quit recreational riding to avoid the likely event of getting hit by a car (please excuse me and correct if I'm mis-remembering).

That, and the above lead me to believe that your assessment of the danger of cycling is quite a bit higher than mine. I personally (based on road riding since the early 70s) don't think cycling is dangerous enough to worry about. Im far more worried about something on the road or simple clutziness causing me to crash than getting hit by a car. And I'm not really worried about that stuff either. Then again, I ride pretty cautiously and very defensively and haven't had any incidents other than my own inexperience or stupidity in all this time.

Everybody's experience, riding conditions and level of anxiety are different so I try not to project my lack of fear to others. But you'll never convince me that something as simple and inoccuous as listening to music at a reasonable volume level is actually dangerous. I don't think it increases danger in a meaningful way. Even if it did, I don't believe it is a large factor - decreasing safety a tiny bit from a very safe activity does not make it dangerous. It's still safe.
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Old 08-12-16, 11:21 PM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
One might get away with it for a while, or perhaps forever. Why add one more thing to the list of things that would make a relatively dangerous situation even worse - cycling on roadways + limiting your sensory input. I am sticking by my assertion that this is just not very smart. But unlike second-hand smoke, someone wearing headphones on their bike will likely have zero effect on me personally so...rock on brothers, rock on!
That was like kind of my point...
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Old 08-14-16, 11:46 PM
  #191  
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I thought of using headphones but unless im on a path/trail its not going to happen for me! Too unsafe.
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Old 08-15-16, 01:26 AM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
You have to be kidding. EVERY TIME I hear a car behind me I check my rear view mirror to see if the car is going to safely pass. What if the car is driven by a teen on their smart phone or a drunk heading right for you??? I am always prepared to dump to the ditch if this is the case.
How do those sound different, and what mirror are you using that would make the driver's age and physical status visible? If you're gawking at the mirror long enough to work things like that out, what do you do to avoid running into things in front of you?

I use a fairly large mirror, and even then it's only to see if there are cars back there and how close, not to do a full assessment of the drivers and their capabilities.
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Old 08-15-16, 01:56 AM
  #193  
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Originally Posted by KD5NRH View Post
How do those sound different, and what mirror are you using that would make the driver's age and physical status visible? If you're gawking at the mirror long enough to work things like that out, what do you do to avoid running into things in front of you?

I use a fairly large mirror, and even then it's only to see if there are cars back there and how close, not to do a full assessment of the drivers and their capabilities.
I am able to do those things with an eyeglass mounted mirror.
https://www.amazon.com/Bike-Peddler-...bicycle+mirror

I can even read a license plate with it in a couple seconds.

Bar mounted mirrors do NOT provide the same ability.
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Old 08-15-16, 06:21 AM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by The Pusher Man View Post
Biking is 99% visual and 1% audible. If you want to increase your situational awareness put mirrors on your bike.
I strongly disagree with your percentages. I find it pretty easy to hear someone coming up behind me on the bike paths. This is also true on roads. When I hear someone coming up behind me on the road I start watching my mirror and prepare myself for diving into the ditch.

Further walkers or cyclist with the ears plugged up with earbuds cant hear me yell on your left. In a case or two a couple of fools had the gall to yell at me for not announcing my pass. IMO walkers are of a different breed, but cyclist should enjoy the biking experience, be safe and be aware of their surroundings.
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Old 08-15-16, 08:58 AM
  #195  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Bar mounted mirrors do NOT provide the same ability.
I can see no scientific reason why they couldn't. If its a MIRROR you can use it to see behind you. Period. Just because a helmet or eyeglass mirror is close to your face does NOT confer magical powers to outperform handlebar mirrors. If you were right then cars, trucks, and buses would have some kind of driver enhancement, rather than mounting mirrors to fixed points on the vehicle.
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Old 08-15-16, 09:01 AM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
I can see no scientific reason why they couldn't. If its a MIRROR you can use it to see behind you. Period. Just because a helmet or eyeglass mirror is close to your face does NOT confer magical powers to outperform handlebar mirrors. If you were right then cars, trucks, and buses would have some kind of driver enhancement, rather than mounting mirrors to fixed points on the vehicle.
But a mirror mounted on your helmet or glasses can be used to scan across a wider area behind you. You just have to turn your head a bit. If you did that with a bar-mounted mirror, you'd be swerving around the lane.
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Old 08-15-16, 09:13 AM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by eff-J View Post
A. Maybe true. Depends on the earphones and volume of listening.

B. Even then, so what?

Again, is the ability to hear traffic sounds or "on your left" so crucial that it would be a total deal-breaker if you couldn't? That it would truly make it impossible to ride a bike at an acceptable level of safety?

All the anti-earphone people should ask themselves this: If you contracted some sort of unfortunate illness that left you completely and permanently deaf, would you just stop riding your bicycle forever?

I'd imagine the answer is "no" for most of you, because you would (correctly) realize that, while being able to hear what is going on around you is nice, the inability to do so does not in any way prevent you from safely operating your bicycle.

Incidentally, I generally prefer not to ride with earphones myself--haven't done it in probably a decade. But it has nothing to do with perceiving it as being dangerous. Although I do usually wear earphones when I go for a run (but not in actual races). I'm sure there's a running forum where people are make the same arguments about that there too.
I am not certain why you bothered to post this completely self contradictory bit of confusion. There is a difference between being deaf and listening to music! One is the absence of hearing, but also the absence of distraction. The other assumes no absence of hearing, but some level of distraction. Possibly a great deal of distraction.

You destroy any credibility you might have when you state that you personally do not ride with headphones. Fine. Neither do I. So why defend it for others? I drive with music but I turn it down or off when parallel parking or some other kind of close quarters jockeying. It took me awhile to even notice that I was doing this. It just seem natural to kill the distraction when trying to concentrate on a task. A cyclist is at a considerable disadvantage on the open road compared to anything else except motorcycles and scooters. I didn't listen to music on my motorcycle either. I'm not saying that droning on the superslab at the speed limit means that one should not be able to enjoy some music, but in town? I think not.

Again, as my earlier post makes clear, cycling with earbuds is not likely to be immediately deadly in the same way that habitually running red signals without checking would be. However, if you ever are nailed by someone's car and you have earbuds dangling... you are on your own... you realize that right... forget any meaningful compensation or restitution... you might actually be the one liable for any damages to the drivers car.
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Old 08-15-16, 09:42 AM
  #198  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
You destroy any credibility you might have when you state that you personally do not ride with headphones. Fine. Neither do I. So why defend it for others?
Because the cases against it, as given in this thread so far at least, simply don't hold up. You don't have to fall on any particular side of a specific debate in order to be "anti-bad-argument".

I also wear a helmet, but that doesn't stop me from calling out a poorly-supported pro-helmet argument when I see one.

Now, since you bring it up, if you can't listen to music on a bike with out it being distracting to a degree that compromises your safety, then yes, you certainly should not wear earphones. That is a perfectly valid and logical reason. But to then take the leap of assuming that no other bicyclist can wear earphones without being distracted just because you can't, well, that's another thing altogether.
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Old 08-15-16, 10:16 AM
  #199  
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Originally Posted by SB739 View Post
As I get into cycling, I've been wondering if it's safe to have earphones in whilst cycling.
Bottom line is, it's not dangerous if you can ride without being distracted by the music, and if you can also hear traffic while listening. Open air, non-cancelling, one ear free etc.

Personally, I find that wearing sunglasses is a greater degradation of my senses than earbuds, but I usually wear them. It's just not that big of a deal if we don't go overboard becoming zombies with it.
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Old 08-15-16, 11:22 AM
  #200  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
Personally, I find that wearing sunglasses is a greater degradation of my senses than earbuds, but I usually wear them.
That depends on the sunglasses. A good pair of polarized sunglasses greatly helps when navigating on the streets - they relieve eyestrain and help you maintain alertness for longer, and also they cut the glare off windscreens which allows you to see better, including seeing into cars so you can see what the driver is doing/looking at.
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