Camilo

I usually wear earbuds when I ride alone. It's an obvious truth to me that it's very safe as long as I don't ride as a clueless dummy and do something dangerous. But being a dummy and doing something dangerous has nothing to do with whether I'm wearing earbuds or not. It strictly relates to being a clueless dummy and not knowing how to ride defensively and safely.

It's also an obvious truth to me that it's very sad that people think that bicycling is a dangerous activity requiring helmet use and fear-fueled irrational measures such as using mirrors and foregoing the pleasure of listening to something through earbuds while riding. Don't get me wrong, it's fine that people have those attitudes and take those "precautions" to limit a very, very small risk to something immaterially less. It's just sad.

genec

It all depends on where you ride... Do you take the lane on high speed (45MPH+) multi-laned arterial roads much? In some places such roads just don't exist... in some places there are nice bike paths going nearly everywhere. In some places the only way to get from A to B is to get on a freeway... so, bottom line... your environment may vary... ride and act accordingly.

kickstart

Being aware of potential issues because of our choices, and using or not using something is an educated choice.

It requires character to be honest about ones own limitations, and intelligence to access ones own particular needs and environment. It may be "sad" to some that others take what they feel to be appropriate precautions, but whats truly pathetic is that some lack the wisdom to know the difference between reason and bravado, or comprehend there's not one correct answer.

Its a irrefutable fact there are choices we can make that suppress or enhance our senses. Our ability to compensate for, or utilize those effects is always changing, and not always entirely under our control.

Some people can smoke 2 packs of cigarets, and drink a 5th a day and live to 100. Others eat healthy, and work out regularly only to die young through some rare disease. But we all know if we want to live a full, happy, healthy life the odds are in favor of one of the above.

Yellowbeard

I ride with in-ear, noise-blocking headphones all the time, but it gave me cirrhosis and lung cancer.

Such a fool I was...

350htrr

Riding with both ears plugged and listening to music is like walking across a street, & texting as you walk, just because the walk signal lights up. In stead of walking and paying attention as the walk signal lights up...

Yellowbeard

And walking across a street with both ears plugged and listening to music is like riding & texting as you ride, just because the ride signal lights up. In stead of walking....er, riding and paying attention as the ride signal lights up...

I guess what I'm saying is that walking and listening to music at the same time is like smoking two packs and drinking a fifth of vodka every day.

I-Like-To-Bike

No wait: walking/riding and listening to music at the same time is like jumping out of an airplane without a parachute;

no wait: walking/riding and listening to music at the same time is like using dirty needles while practicing unprotected sex with strangers;

no wait, worse yet: walking/riding and listening to music at the same time is like driving a car while listening to music!

Oh the horror; oh the humanity!

Camilo

Yea, I ride in all those conditions. And yes, adapt my cycling to the circumstances. But have found the "precautions" that some think are absolutely essential for their safety, aren't essential to mine. I feel pretty comfortable riding everywhere and virtually never feel that I'm in a dangerous situation if I ride intelligently and defensively.

Camilo

No it's not. One (the not paying attention example you gave) is being clueless and reckless. The other is not.

905

Some say yes. Most say no. For me it's yes,* but it's something you have to decide for yourself.



* Killing the iPod Zombie Cyclist Myth

genec

Yup... that is really all it takes.

And yet, people come here and ask... "should I???"

So what do you tell someone that doesn't have enough intelligence to "figure it out?" Like talking to a child, you err in the direction of safe.

Camilo

When I was young, my dad used to say "figure it out" a lot. I thought he was kind of being an azzhol. Now that I'm older than he was then, I know he was just frustrated that I wasn't trying to figure things out rather than just asking questions instead. I get frustrated when people lack common sense and lack the ambition to figure things out, etc. But I'm probably just being an azzhol. 8-)

I also now know that things that just seem "duh" to me, don't to others. Just like higher level abstract math proofs and music performance make sense to some, but not to me.

genec

amen.

350htrr

Not really... Not paying attention, thus not noticing something happening is/can be the same "effect" as not knowing something is happening because something is blocking your senses and you don't know it's happening...

TankSlapper

Apparently, in California, it is illegal to wear ear-buds in both ears:

From vehicle code:

Wearing of Headsets or Earplugs 27400.
A person operating a motor vehicle or bicycle may not wear a headset covering, or earplugs in, both ears.

I typically ride with earbuds in both ears. Yeah, I'm an outlaw!

Daniel4

Let me understand this correctly. There are some people here who justify running through red lights and stop signs, don’t wear helmets, don’t use mirrors and plug up their ears.

How confident would you be on the road when motorists have their own justifications for the same things but substituting helmet for seat-belts.

kickstart

I think you need to read between the lines, some people are just bragging that their skills, reflexes, and athletic ability are superior to the rest of us, so naturally since they don't need to exercise reasonable prudence, nobody needs to.

The problem is, it works out that some people aren't as awesome as they think..........and "stuff happens".

Yellowbeard

What is this, the False Analogy Olympics?

Why would you substitute helmet for seat belts? The equivalent of helmets is helmets, and drivers typically don't wear them. Not for lack of head injuries, of course.

And since you asked. My confidence on the road isn't affected at all when motorists don't wear seat belts OR helmets.

asmac

I rely on it all the time. In the city you hear cars otherwise sneaking up on you and can be quite a surprise when you are passed by a silent vehicle such as an e-bike. On the highway you can hear cars approaching from quite a distance and get a chance to do a visual check.

Then there are bells, horns, whistles and shouts which are always good to hear.

I-Like-To-Bike

Cost =$893; added value to cyclist =$0. Adding a microphone to amplify ambient sounds is a dopey solution to a non existing problem.
Every existing music player already has a volume control that make it easy to balance music with ambient sounds volume to suit any cyclist's concern with hearing ambient sound.

baron von trail 

This thread reminds me a little of the Harleys going by with loud pipes and an even louder stereo cranking some god-awful tune. The question is---why bother? Do people really need to listen to music that badly?

baron von trail 

Clearly we have our own swarm of Darwin Award nominees.

spare_wheel

after well-over a hundred thousand commuting miles i can't recall a single instance where hearing engine noise impacted my safety. bells, horns, whistles, and shouts are moving the goal post (and things that are easy to hear while wearing headphones).

spare_wheel

*running traffic signals is entirely legal in the state neighboring mine with absolutely no evidence of any increased risk (before-after studies).
*mirrors are no substitute for a shoulder check (and potentially a crutch).
*deaf people have no problem riding or walking in cities.


there is a specific helment thread where helment nazis are free rant:

https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...hread-2-a.html

Yellowbeard

Right, but what do you actually DO about it?

We all ride without headphones some of the time, so we all know what it's like. My experience is that you're either in heavy enough traffic that you can (and should) assume there's a car in your blind spot at all times, or you're in light enough traffic that you've got plenty of time to visually check between cars. In either case you should be riding a good steady line unless you are sure that there aren't any cars behind you, which takes vision.

How are we supposed to react when we hear a car? Someone upthread (*EDIT: someone in the OTHER thread) suggested that we should be flinging ourselves into the ditch any time we hear an engine rev. I prefer not to eat concrete preemptively, and I don't have the ability to distinguish, by sound, between a car that's about to hit me and a car that's about to pass. If anything, I feel safer with headphones in because it doesn't startle me when idiots tap their horn to let me know that they, one of hundreds of other cars, are about to pass me in heavy city traffic.

Compare the number of posts on this forum, or your personal experiences, of the numbers of shouts, horns, etc. that both apply to you and actually communicate something useful to those that are just A55h0les screwing with you or impotently complaining about something. Most of them probably fall under the category of distractions, which so many in this thread are keen on avoiding.