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THIS is what we as cyclists do not do, for the reason shown...

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THIS is what we as cyclists do not do, for the reason shown...

Old 05-14-15, 12:40 AM
  #1  
Rollfast
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THIS is what we as cyclists do not do, for the reason shown...

We do not flip a driver off at least four times to express our displeasure with them.

Assault caught on biker's helmet cam

I don't know whether the cyclist is a member here and it was basically asked for as a result in the end analysis (and it was completely WRONG, on all sides). If you cannot let it slip past you and get on with your life, then you were not a civil cyclist and it's shameful. There are worse implications of what could have happened, but that was downright RUDE of the cyclist and uncalled for.

You and motorists are there to co-exist, and even if the truck was a little close there was room to deal with the truck.

This is poor thinking. Don't let your helmet camera do your talking, let your actions do it.

TAUNTING is very bad behavior and two wrongs don't make a right.

The man who assaulted him could have done much worse. I can credit him for restraining his anger at least even though I didn't care for his response.

Still, this is NOT how WE should roll, ever.

I apologize if this is covered in another thread but having seen it today I wanted to make my opinion crystal clear.

BAD MOJO.
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Old 05-14-15, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post

The man who assaulted him could have done much worse. I can credit him for restraining his anger at least even though I didn't care for his response.

Still, this is NOT how WE should roll, ever.
I'm confused. Are you seriously telling me that you credit the driver of the truck for restraining his anger? You cannot be serious. Nonetheless, while I try not to flip off drivers, I pretty much disagree with your entire post. The biker did nothing wrong other than express his fear and anger at the truck driver. Everything that happens after that is 100% on the truck driver.
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Old 05-14-15, 06:38 AM
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When someone threatens your life with a 3 ton vehicle, it is sometimes hard to completely contain the fear and anger that suddenly manifests.

Flipping someone off, while not the best idea, does in no way make it acceptable to commit assault.
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Old 05-14-15, 06:44 AM
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Flipping someone off in this day and age is a bad idea. There are too many nut cases out there. It’s dangerous enough riding on the road already. Drivers are eating, texting, reading the paper, reading the ipad, putting on makeup, talking on the phone, arguing with the spouse, updating their Facebook status…. No need to add the hair trigger road rage dude into this mix.
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Old 05-14-15, 06:59 AM
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Its really hard to tell based on the video who was wrong. The driver was maybe a bit close to him, but he had clearly also lowered his speed to a level where danger was out of the question. As far as I am concerned the cyclist did overreact. At most he should have gestured with his hand up in the air. Giving him the finger is certainly not correct in this case. I would undrstand if it was at twice the speed or something, but at that speed there's hardly anything to justefie giving another person the finger. Ofcourse the driver overreacted too at the end with the assault. That's what happens these days when you give other people the finger.
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Old 05-14-15, 07:23 AM
  #6  
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I'd never blame the victim. Someone who wears a an expensive suit and a rolex while walking through a bad neighborhood late at night while obviously drunk and distracted absolutely does not deserve to get mugged. But it wasn't that smart of him to do it, either.

When I'm dealing with aggressive drivers, I have to remind myself that I'm riding 17 lbs of carbon fiber in my underwear and they have 4000 lbs of steel and a few hundred horsepower at their disposal. The question I have to ask myself is "Is it more important for me to continue my ride in good health and salvage the rest of the day, or is it more important for me to be right?"

Another analogy - You're in a bar and the 300 lb drunk with a 45 on his hip next to you gives you a long look and says "you're ugly!" Do you
1) Get in his face and insult his mother?
2) Loudly call for everyone else to participate in yoru argument?, or
3) Smile and move away from the drunk at your first opportunity?

Which one do you suppose is most likely to allow you to enjoy the rest of your evening?
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Old 05-14-15, 07:24 AM
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Damn, I flipped off numerous motorists who passed dangerously close, in order to get them to stop and discuss the situation.....no matter how I tried, there were no takers. I finally had to revert to videoing my commutes so I could at least get better information, and satisfaction, in reporting the motorists to law enforcement.

"He kicked my truck, so I was in fear for my life"................
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Old 05-14-15, 07:26 AM
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I only give the finger one time.
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Old 05-14-15, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
...You're in a bar and the 300 lb drunk with a 45 on his hip next to you gives you a long look and says "you're ugly!" Do you
1) Get in his face and insult his mother?
2) Loudly call for everyone else to participate in yoru argument?, or
3) Smile and move away from the drunk at your first opportunity?
4) Comment on how much you admire his choice of firearm. (Assuming it's an M1911 or some derivative)
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Old 05-14-15, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
4) Comment on how much you admire his choice of firearm. (Assuming it's an M1911 or some derivative)
I'm a card carrying member of the John Moses Browning fan club and a USPSA single stack guy.
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Old 05-14-15, 07:33 AM
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I prefer to err on the side of safety. However having a camera in the event of a hit and run is a good idea, imo.
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Old 05-14-15, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
4) Comment on how much you admire his choice of firearm. (Assuming it's an M1911 or some derivative)
And show him (or her) your derivative of 1911...the beginnings of a great friendship despite how ugly you might be. Sexy pistols make the world prettier somehow.

There is no way that the driver committing assault because he got flipped off is excusable. The driver actually got lucky in his assumption that the cyclist was an easy target. I ride often with a buddy I served with while in the Navy. The driver would have been prevented from continuing his harmful behavior, at the least, had he tried the same with him.
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Old 05-14-15, 08:13 AM
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Just to be clear, while I think flipping off a driver I usually not the good idea (though I sometimes do it before I really think about it ), this incident is 100% the fault of the driver of the truck. Do any of you seriously think that he's a great guy and typically a wonderful driver who was simply in a hurry to rescue a bunch of puppies? The fact that he reacted the way he did suggests me that he's probably an a$$hole who likely doesn't like bicyclers to begin with. Looked, he passed too closely to the cyclist while driving in an area with a double yellow line, and the cyclist probably was startled and reacted like many people do. The driver of the truck got pissed (probably because he knew he was being a ****** and didn't appreciate being called out on it) and first tried to block the biker, which didn’t work, so he then passed too closely again…at a higher rate of speed (obviously to send a message), and then stopped and assaulted the rider…and then lied to the police about the whole thing. I’d be willing to bet that any gesture the biker made in response would have elicited the same reaction from the driver. He’s a menace and I’m glad he got arrested.
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Old 05-14-15, 08:15 AM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by Wingsprint View Post
Flipping someone off in this day and age is a bad idea. There are too many nut cases out there. It’s dangerous enough riding on the road already. Drivers are eating, texting, reading the paper, reading the ipad, putting on makeup, talking on the phone, arguing with the spouse, updating their Facebook status…. No need to add the hair trigger road rage dude into this mix.
Correct! He should have simply taken the video of the original incident to the police. "Poking the bear" is never a good idea.
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Old 05-14-15, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
We do not flip a driver off at least four times to express our displeasure with them.

Assault caught on biker's helmet cam

I don't know whether the cyclist is a member here and it was basically asked for as a result in the end analysis (and it was completely WRONG, on all sides). If you cannot let it slip past you and get on with your life, then you were not a civil cyclist and it's shameful. There are worse implications of what could have happened, but that was downright RUDE of the cyclist and uncalled for.

You and motorists are there to co-exist, and even if the truck was a little close there was room to deal with the truck.

This is poor thinking. Don't let your helmet camera do your talking, let your actions do it.

TAUNTING is very bad behavior and two wrongs don't make a right.

The man who assaulted him could have done much worse. I can credit him for restraining his anger at least even though I didn't care for his response.

Still, this is NOT how WE should roll, ever.

I apologize if this is covered in another thread but having seen it today I wanted to make my opinion crystal clear.

BAD MOJO.
Ridiculous.



The truck was way too close. Given that the road was straight and there was no traffic in the opposing lane, there isn't any excuse for such a close pass.

The "flipping" is a minor thing (it's just dumb) but isn't a safety issue.

The overly-close pass was worse.
The repeated taunting and subsequent assalt by the driver was magnitudes worse.

Last edited by njkayaker; 05-14-15 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 05-14-15, 08:20 AM
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Just to be clear, while I think flipping off a driver is usually not the good idea (though I sometimes do it before I really think about it ), this incident is 100% the fault of the driver of the truck. Do any of you seriously think that he's a great guy and typically a wonderful driver who was simply in a hurry to rescue a bunch of puppies? The fact that he reacted the way he did suggests me that he's probably an a$$hole who likely doesn't like bicyclers to begin with. Looked, he passed too closely to the cyclist while driving in an area with a double yellow line, and the cyclist probably was startled and reacted like many people do. The driver of the truck got pissed (probably because he knew he was being an a-hole and didn't appreciate being called out on it) and first tried to block the biker, which didn’t work, so he then passed too closely again…at a higher rate of speed (obviously to send a message), and then stopped and assaulted the rider…and then lied to the police about the whole thing. I’d be willing to bet that any gesture the biker made in response would have elicited the same reaction from the driver. He’s a menace and I’m glad he got arrested.
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Old 05-14-15, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Wingsprint View Post
No need to add the hair trigger road rage dude into this mix.
It appears that the driver was the instigator by passing way too close on an empty road.

The driver's excessive responses to a hand gesture backs that impression (IMO).

Originally Posted by FliesOnly1 View Post
The fact that he reacted the way he did suggests me that he's probably an a$$hole who likely doesn't like bicyclers to begin with. Looked, he passed too closely to the cyclist while driving in an area with a double yellow line,
The way the driver reacted to a minor dumb thing is a strong indication that he's a bad/incompetent driver.

As far as I can tell, the road was clear and straight. It appears that it would have been reasonable and safe to move over (just like most other people would have done).

Last edited by njkayaker; 05-14-15 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 05-14-15, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post

The "flipping" is a minor thing (it's just dumb) but isn't a safety issue.
My personal opinion, flipping off motorists isn't dumb......but a means of showing one's displeasure to a motorist's poor/dangerous driving habit, in my case, it was more of a waste of time. I've now found that videoing motorists' driving habits that severely endanger my personal safety, and calling them out on it by reporting them to law enforcement with better information, is much more satisfying on my part.
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Old 05-14-15, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mozad655 View Post
Its really hard to tell based on the video who was wrong. The driver was maybe a bit close to him, but he had clearly also lowered his speed to a level where danger was out of the question.
The driver passed too closely on road that was (apparently) straight and clear with enough room to reasonably and safely move over some.
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Old 05-14-15, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
My personal opinion, flipping off motorists isn't dumb......but a means of show one's displeasure to a motorist poor driving habit, in my case, it was more of a waste of time. I've now found that videoing motorists' driving habits that severely endanger my personal safety, and calling them out on it by reporting them to law enforcement with better information, is much more satisfying on my part.
I think one could make a reasonable case that flipping off people is dumb. Either way, it's a trivial act (that doesn't pose a safety risk).

The problem in this thread is that too many people are ignoring the elephant in the room that is stomping on their heads!

Some people here seem convinced the cylist was the instigator when it's possible (probable, maybe)) that the driver was the instigator. The driver stopping and blocking the cyclist may also have been illegal (nothing the cyclist did was illegal).

The outrage expressed against the cyclist here is wackadoodle.

Last edited by njkayaker; 05-14-15 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 05-14-15, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
TAUNTING is very bad behavior and two wrongs don't make a right.

The man who assaulted him could have done much worse. I can credit him for restraining his anger at least even though I didn't care for his response.
Wait... what the WHAT?!?! It's my guess that you never ride on roads and never experience these dangerous/hateful drivers. The guy in the truck is more than taunting the the guy on the bike, that truck will kill you, 'the finger' will never cause any harm. RESTRAINT?!?!? The guy in the truck has nothing that resembles restraint, he is the cause of road-rage: escalating a hand gesture at 50 yards into physical violence. The guy in the truck created a stressful situation, and clearly was watching his mirrors to see the reaction.

I have long since tried to restrain my desire to flick off dangerous drivers. I try to make it a wave, or a WTF shrug, or my favorite... blow kisses. I find it important to avoid feeding these beasts (the road-ragers), and avoid the "angry cyclist" image. But I reserve the right to give the one-finger-salute to the people that threaten my life.
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Old 05-14-15, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
I think one could make a reasonable case that flipping off people is dumb.
Since since motorists generally could not hear me yelling at them, how else can a cyclist personally show their displeasure of a motorist's dangerous driving habits, "Smile and Wave" like some here on BF suggest..............
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Old 05-14-15, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
Since since motorists generally could not hear me yelling at them, how else can a cyclist personally show their displeasure of a motorist's dangerous driving habits, "Smile and Wave" like some here on BF suggest..............
The "smile and wave" might be more annoying to the driver than being flipped at.
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Old 05-14-15, 08:57 AM
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In my anecdotal observations there seem to be two types of close passes. There could be more but every one of the too-close passes I've encountered easily falls into one of these two classifications.

1) oblivious
This is the distracted, unaware, or inattentive driver. Flip this person off after a too close pass and they will likely never see it.

2) intentional
This is the driver out to get a reaction. If the reaction is not the one they desired, they will respond with more anger and/or aggression in order to get the desired reaction.

Clearly, the truck driver depicted here is from group two.
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Old 05-14-15, 08:59 AM
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I don't fear retribution from flipping someone off... I can handle myself just fine, thank you. I just don't find doing it to be at all satisfying.

I believe to onlookers, the flipper always looks worse than the person he/she flipped off... They will be seen as person with anger issues that they are unable to control. I don't want to be seen as that person.

On the other hand, if someone flips me off I don't let it bother me in the least... now if they want to stop and start something, that's another story.
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