I’ve read several threads regarding bike clubs and the impression I get is that large groups of riders don’t respect the traffic laws. As a few posting here mention, riding in small groups is better because you don't lose people or leave them behind.

The fact that the car always win in a direct conflict with a bicycle tells me more people should get out of their cars to reduce the overall danger to everyone else including pedestrians and motorists. Surveys by Consumer Reports in 2012 and by Expedia just released indicate that if all cyclists were removed from traffic, it wouldn’t change a thing for motorists. But one has to recognize it’s the attitude of motorists that must change. Compare the North America driving culture with that of the Netherlands and Denmark.

It takes three to six times longer for a motorist to pass another motorist than to pass a bicycle. So being on a bicycle minimizes traffic congestion because they are so easy to pass. And if traffic is too busy to pass a bicycle, you wouldn’t be going much faster anyways. Furthermore, seeing a cyclist weaving in and out may appear annoying but consider, you are the slow moving vehicle and he is getting out of your way by only passing you on your left.

I have been bike commuting for almost a full year now, and I have never felt better both physically and psychologically. Yes, I do obey traffic laws and stop at four-way stop signs and wait at red lights even when there’s nobody else there. I learned to filter because it made sense and I didn’t want to contribute to the congestion by waiting when I can pass all those slow moving vehicles instead of being in front or behind them.

CB HI,
I would say it was more a case of rounding rather than intentional exaggeration, but you make a good (if kind of irrelevant to my point) point. The speed limit on that road is usually 45mph, so it was an additional half-hour rather than 45 minutes.

The intention of my post was not to just gripe about having my ride home occasionally take longer than usual or exactly how much longer than usual it takes.
I think it would be safer for everyone if large groups of cyclists would allow cars room to pass safely by breaking into smaller groups. That's just my opinion as a motorist. Since I don't have a cyclist's perspective, I came here to see if that seems like a reasonable request.

I think, reading through this forum, that there is a lot of anger on both sides and our current system isn't always ideal for cyclists OR motorists.

Thank you, everyone, for your input.

That's why many of us are advocates for bike lanes. It's not a be all end all but it helps. Thank you for considering us in your travels, lynnlee. Even if it's from a self preservation angle. That's just human and I understand that, too.

Part of the exasperation cyclist experience, is the constant exaggerated claims motorist make.

For example, lets take your revised claim:
If you are traveling the speed limit of 45 mph for 15 minutes, you traveled 11.25 miles.
If you are behind cyclist at the low end of their speed at 18 mph, it takes you 22.5 extra minutes. But if they are traveling at the higher end of 25 mph, then it takes you 12 extra minutes.

And how often are you behind the cyclist for the entire 11.25 miles?

Seems like a good time to just relax and enjoy the rural view at a more relaxed pace. That certainly works best for me when behind slow moving vehicles - cyclist or motorist.

I questioned the extra 45 minutes in an earlier post too, as it seemed excessively long to me. Thankfully we have CB to do the math!

The thing is, motorists should not have to wait behind a group of cyclists indefinitely. If the cyclists don't want to break up into smaller, easier to pass groups, then they should at least pull over and allow the line of cars behind them through when it's safe to do so. This is not only courteous but is actually the law.

Hmmmm....That is subjective to your perception of the safety of cyclists'.
Is there danger, yes. But it shouldn't be approached with belligerent ignorance. You don't have to always pass a cyclist, when they are in front of you.
Do you absolutely need to pass a cyclist, mail truck, or 18-wheeler.
You can wait, just as if you were behind another motorized vehicle.
Don't try to pass them.
They have every right to ride in groups that are a car-length long. Because, You could still see the oncoming traffic without having to go into the oncoming lane to see it.
Hmmm....

The OP is a responsible motorist who DOES interact with cyclists in a safe and legal manner. He came into A&S and made some valid points... potentially his biggest mistake! :lol:

What? Why would you say this?

CB HI,

And if they were only going 17mph for a portion of the trip (remember, it's hilly!) and my commute was actually 12.25 miles instead of 11.25, which means it would've taken me 16.3 minutes instead of 15, then it would've taken me about 27 extra minutes.
I can do the math and I concede that I probably should have made more of an effort to do that to make my original post more accurate. I've also conceded that cyclists are low on the list of motorist "inconveniences."
Whether my trip took 12 minutes, 22 minutes, 27 minutes, or 45 minutes longer wasn't what I was trying to highlight.

I acknowledge and understand your exasperation and the part I played in it, but I hope that my (fairly long) original post isn't boiled down to that one line.

Take heart in knowing that even if you pass illegally and run down a whole hoard of cyclists, the chance that you will actually be ticketed, charged, or punished is very low. Five cyclists have been run down here in the last month and not a single one of the drivers was charged with anything aside from minor traffic tickets. So, worry not, just crush them with your car. It's cool. The law agrees.

Punkncat,
I sincerely hope those five cyclists are still alive and make a full recovery.

No it's not unreasonable that they should break up into smaller groups that are easier to pass. And if they are backing up four or five cars, or even one car for several miles, it's not unreasonable that they should pull over and let the cars pass. Strictly speaking, convoys are illegal and big packs of bicycles staying together are acting as convoys.

No one has explained it completely but there's something under the surface going on here in our attitude about your question. Often someone gets behind a cyclist, and objectively it's only a few seconds or a minute at the very most before they can safely pass. But they are impatient and react out of proportion: honking, screaming, buzzing within inches, and sometimes worse. And you see and hear exaggerated claims about how much cyclists slow them down. You've seen those types acting that way with other cars I'm sure - imagine being on a bike instead of in a car when that happens. So that is a sore subject with cyclists.

As I read your scenario, that's not really the situation. You have a long stretch where it's really not safe to pass, and a group taking the road in the whole stretch without ever pulling over. As I understand it, that's pretty rare and I'd be upset about it also.

No, the point was that they all got killed and the drivers walked with no serious charges.

I totally meant my post in a sarcastic, dark humor kind of way, but the really scary part is the truth of it.

I'm so sorry to hear that. Their families are in my thoughts and prayers.

I got the sarcasm in your post and the honesty.

Thank you, wphamilton, I think that was well put and I appreciate the insight.

I appreciate the OP's willingness to engage in the discussion.

Out of curiosity was there really no place with sufficient visibility to pass for the full 45 min or were you concerned with crossing the double yellow line? Or was there heavy traffic in the opposite direction.

I don't know how big the group was but it's not clear to me that 10 groups of 5 would be any easier or safer to deal with than one large clump of tightly packed cyclists.

I just got back from a cycling holiday in Spain and was impressed how patient the drivers were following us up narrow winding hills. They would patiently putter behind us until it was safe to pass and they go by with a wave. Even on narrow winding roads it never took more than a minute or two before there was a stretch with reasonable visibility.

Any chance you can show a google maps view of the road in question?

Five cyclists killed in the last month in your area?? And where might that be? You wouldn't be exaggerating a bit would you?

This must be the most polite thread ever on A&S. So many "thank you's".:roflmao2:

It's a real shame that you can't post anything here on BF without someone coming along within a few posts with the obligatory "you're lying"....Really jerky thing to say.

No, I wouldn't exaggerate about people dying. I live near Atlanta, and five cyclists have been run down and killed (near) here over the last month. There are quite a few news feeds from the local area for which you to "check up on me" about it.

And FWIW, Advocacy & Safety, while ostensibly what you are talking about, does not seem to be perused by many who ride as you described in the OP -- in a large group. Most here realize and know that riding in large groups, especially those focused on performance rather than safety, is not the safest way to ride. Note posts by those saying as much.

If you really want to make an impact and talk with those who ride in such a way, check out the Road Bike subforum. Word of caution, if you post there, you may not find those who peruse that particular subforum as willing to engage in discussion as polite as you've found here...

Accuracy & Sarcasm. Fun for some! :lol:

Yeah, I figure I gave him enough fodder that he is off digging news feeds and checking locations and dates for his comeback post....

Some groups of cyclists do a great disservice to the rest of us by block the lane riding two and three abreast when there is no safety reason or legal justification to do so....more than single file and impeding traffic is clearly against the law in my state. My cute little town attracts cyclists like flies on honey and many of the locals are annoyed at the constant parades of riders. They are a PITA. I literally stopped riding with two clubs because of their biligerent attitude that they own the road. On one club ride after a re-group point at the top of a climb, the club sat down on the pavement on a blind intersection. I said we need to get off the road and a couple of smart asses said the cars can go around. A local police officer talked to me about "these cyclists". They would not move over for me when he hit the lights and then the siren. He said they were 2 and 3 abreast on a country road that I know well and that there was nothing coming the other way. He could not understand them. Neither can I. I said to the COP that he should have pulled them all over and ticketed them. I see illegal group riding practices all the time and although I understand the rider's motivations because I done a lot of cycling and I am no angel, other drivers just get justifiably pissed off. I will wait and wait patiently behind riders two abreast up the hills on our little country lanes but when the road opens up and the club riders still insist on riding two and three abreast, this is just wrong. When I say little country lane, I mean that two cars cannot pass in many places. Having a lifted pickup and a lifted Land Cruiser, I often have to ride into the ditch with oncoming cars. Riding 2 and 3 abreast on such roads is not only inconsiderate and dangerous but against the law. When I do pass cyclists I often need to drive into the ditch and they still do not move over and yes I get it that the center of the road is smoother but when a car comes, it should be single file as far right as is safe.....not two or three abreast down the center of the lane whether I have waited 30 seconds or 30 minutes is irrelevant.

Sorry I'm not tuned into Atlanta news feeds/fodder for vague ranting about law and order or the lack of such in your "area".

Accuracy? Doncha mean irrelevant for some!